Jordan Peterson thread

platinum87 said:
No, the basis of communism is basically that resources are finite, and that the guy who has more has more at the expense of someone else, who because one person has more, has less.

The example he uses is the communists who confiscated the land of successful farmers, what happened is, the people who took over cant farm, and long story short, everyone starved to death.

So if you say we need less population its the same argument but executed differently, which results in the same eventual conclusion.

Maybe i dont explain it properly, regardless, jordan is very emotional and will say things like that.

They are not actually in favor of eugenics, i am, my reason for it is simply to improve people, dont care about climate effects.
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It was from this book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

If you read it and understood the dangers of Communism you might not be so quick to give the government the sort of power to enact a Eugenics program. You might also understand why Peterson gets emotional about this ****.
 
Roar87 said:
You think he's fair game to abuse because he didn't want to be forced by law to use gender pronouns which could be made up on the spot.
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What? Show me where I’ve said this please?

I’ve clearly said why I think he’s fair game, you’ve even quoted it. And you’ve just made up a completely different reason why.
 
Roar87 said:
It was from this book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

If you read it and understood the dangers of Communism you might not be so quick to give the government the sort of power to enact a Eugenics program. You might also understand why Peterson gets emotional about this ****.
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You've read Solzhenitsyn? The whole book? I am well aware of his monologues on this book and am very impressed if you've read it.

I imagine you haven't though and you're citing it from one of his lecture out-takes on YouTube. That said, it does appear to be an important primary source on the dangers of Communism and why people, especially these days, shouldn't be so quick to promote it.

If you liked his citation of that book you may enjoy this interview between him and Douglas Murray. It's a bit echo-chambery, but it is a very interesting comparision of far left and far right values, as well as the discussion on the accuracy of Intelligence Quotas.


I think it highlights the wider point of why espousing oneself to Communism can not only be a bad, but a terrible thing. I see this a lot these days on the internet, people saying they are proud Communists, without really understanding the effects and history behind what they are talking about. I was out just a few days ago with one of my best friends, a proud and outspoken Labour supporter, who was also saying that attaching oneself to Communism is very short-sighted.

I also dated a Communist once, years ago. I can't remember the Gulag ever coming up in conversation. I don't know if that's because her and her Communist family ignored it or they just didn't know about it.

EDIT: by the way, the above video is from Peterson's 'good period', sort of pre-2020. It seems to have gone a bit wrong after that.
 
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Lysander said:
You've read Solzhenitsyn? The whole book? I am well aware of his monologues on this book and am very impressed if you've read it.

I imagine you haven't though and you're citing it from one of his lecture out-takes on YouTube. That said, it does appear to be an important primary source on the dangers of Communism and why people, especially these days, shouldn't be so quick to promote it.

If you liked his citation of that book you may enjoy this interview between him and Douglas Murray. It's a bit echo-chambery, but it is a very interesting comparision of far left and far right values, as well as the discussion on the accuracy of Intelligence Quotas.


I think it highlights the wider point of why espousing oneself to Communism can not only be a bad, but a terrible thing. I see this a lot these days on the internet, people saying they are proud Communists, without really understanding the effects and history behind what they are talking about. I was out just a few days ago with one of my best friends, a proud and outspoken Labour supporter, who was also saying that attaching oneself to Communism is very short-sighted.

I also dated a Communist once, years ago. I can't remember the Gulag ever coming up in conversation. I don't know if that's because her and her Communist family ignored it or they just didn't know about it.

EDIT: by the way, the above video is from Peterson's 'good period', sort of pre-2020. It seems to have gone a bit wrong after that.
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I take my hat off to anyone who has finished the GULAG Archipelago.

It is hugely long and, as you'd expect, terribly depressing.

I stopped after a few hundred pages, the chapter about "what it's like to have lice" was the final straw for me.

An even more depressing one is Kolyma Tales, by Varlam Shalamov. Jeez, that book...
 
Lysander said:
You've read Solzhenitsyn? The whole book? I am well aware of his monologues on this book and am very impressed if you've read it.

I imagine you haven't though and you're citing it from one of his lecture out-takes on YouTube. That said, it does appear to be an important primary source on the dangers of Communism and why people, especially these days, shouldn't be so quick to promote it.

If you liked his citation of that book you may enjoy this interview between him and Douglas Murray. It's a bit echo-chambery, but it is a very interesting comparision of far left and far right values, as well as the discussion on the accuracy of Intelligence Quotas.


I think it highlights the wider point of why espousing oneself to Communism can not only be a bad, but a terrible thing. I see this a lot these days on the internet, people saying they are proud Communists, without really understanding the effects and history behind what they are talking about. I was out just a few days ago with one of my best friends, a proud and outspoken Labour supporter, who was also saying that attaching oneself to Communism is very short-sighted.

I also dated a Communist once, years ago. I can't remember the Gulag ever coming up in conversation. I don't know if that's because her and her Communist family ignored it or they just didn't know about it.

EDIT: by the way, the above video is from Peterson's 'good period', sort of pre-2020. It seems to have gone a bit wrong after that.
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No I didn't want to give the impression I'd read it. I've listened to the actual podcast you linked about it as well, I didn't know it was such a challenging read though, except for how grim the content was.
 
Lysander said:
I think it highlights the wider point of why espousing oneself to Communism can not only be a bad, but a terrible thing. I see this a lot these days on the internet, people saying they are proud Communists, without really understanding the effects and history behind what they are talking about. I was out just a few days ago with one of my best friends, a proud and outspoken Labour supporter, who was also saying that attaching oneself to Communism is very short-sighted.

I also dated a Communist once, years ago. I can't remember the Gulag ever coming up in conversation. I don't know if that's because her and her Communist family ignored it or they just didn't know about it.
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I have some extremely bad news for you about how many people have been killed by the profit motive of capitalism in just the last few years.
 
robgmun said:
"True communism has been tried yet, durrrrr"
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This is a typical communist argument. When I say "typical", I mean I have heard this argument in person from communists I have known. They said, "communism will not work until the whole world adopts it" and they cite the USSR failing as an inappropriate example, saying "it was just one country". They also frequently talk about "the world revolution" when the whole world will apparently one day adopt communism.

I find it personally quite strange that anyone can think like this, because it hugely assumes that the entirety of the world, or at least a large majority of it, will employ the same political mindset. This is very unrealistic, and also unnatural.

By the way, since it has been raised, I am not saying that capitalism is the way towards a better world. I am purely talking about communism here and have no desire to be drawn into a capitalist debate.
 
Lysander said:
This is a typical communist argument. When I say "typical", I mean I have heard this argument in person from communists I have known. They said, "communism will not work until the whole world adopts it" and they cite the USSR failing as an inappropriate example, saying "it was just one country". They also frequently talk about "the world revolution" when the whole world will apparently one day adopt communism.

I find it personally quite strange that anyone can think like this, because it hugely assumes that the entirety of the world, or at least a large majority of it, will employ the same political mindset. This is very unrealistic, and also unnatural.

By the way, since it has been raised, I am not saying that capitalism is the way towards a better world. I am purely talking about communism here and have no desire to be drawn into a capitalist debate.
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Communism is deeply unnatural, you'd have to literary brainwash an entire species into ejecting their humanity to achieve it. It's no coincidence that speaking to people who are extreme socialists/communists/marxists have this odd whiff as if they're part of a cult like they've had a lobotomy.
 
robgmun said:
Communism is deeply unnatural, you'd have to literary brainwash an entire species into ejecting their humanity to achieve it. It's no coincidence that speaking to people who are extreme socialists/communists/marxists have this odd whiff as if they're part of a cult like they've had a lobotomy.
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Ah yes, whereas Capitalism and other forms of society are clearly just the natural order of things. Brilliant deduction there.

I’m far from a communist, but I think bashing communism as evil or unnatural is a tad unfair when horrors equally as appalling and in greater numbers have befallen other forms of society and economic structures. It normally seems to come from those who wouldn’t last 5 minutes in a true natural selection 0 society sum game as well, who benefit from their current protected position in society but don’t want to admit it.
 
robgmun said:
Communism is deeply unnatural
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Tell that to bees, everybody thinks it's a monarchy because there's a Queen, but the workers can decide to revolt against the Queen and kill her if she's too old or not doing a good job and then make a new Queen by feeding one of the eggs the Royal Jelly, the Bee society is literal communism with everybody working for the greater good of the hive
 
We are not bees..... And the queen has a crap life in the middle popping babies 24/7, so while bees are good at being bees they are no threat to humanity apart from if we do not look after them.
 
hurfdurf said:
Ah yes, whereas Capitalism and other forms of society are clearly just the natural order of things. Brilliant deduction there.

I’m far from a communist, but I think bashing communism as evil or unnatural is a tad unfair when horrors equally as appalling and in greater numbers have befallen other forms of society and economic structures. It normally seems to come from those who wouldn’t last 5 minutes in a true natural selection 0 society sum game as well, who benefit from their current protected position in society but don’t want to admit it.
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Communism is rather unique because what is required under that system is for us to give all of the wealth we create into the hands of a few people, namely the centralised government who plan the economy and redistribute the wealth, this creates massive opportunities for corruption and also removes the incentive for people to work hard and innovate, because if I'm going to be paid the same regardless then why work hard? Why try to excel at something or try and find better ways of doing things?

Under Capitalism the government is intended to simply regulate, private companies compete with each other to be more efficient and innovative due to the desire for not only profit, but actually the survival of their company. There's a divide between the people who create and control the wealth, in theory at least, and the people who create the rules. So Capitalism shouldn't have the same vulnerability to massive corruption which *always* occur under Communism because the government doesn't also have all of the money. There is still corruption of course, but it's much more limited in scope, because the wealth is in the hands of private citizens who themselves are regulated by governments, who are in turn voted in Democratically. There's accountability at all levels. Compared to a Communist Dictatorship where one person has all of the power, wealth and isn't accountable to anyone.

I find it crazy that the same people who scream blue murder about Tories helping their mates get PPE contracts want a system of government that actually has *more* opportunities for things of that nature to occur.
 
hurfdurf said:
Ah yes, whereas Capitalism and other forms of society are clearly just the natural order of things. Brilliant deduction there.

I’m far from a communist, but I think bashing communism as evil or unnatural is a tad unfair when horrors equally as appalling and in greater numbers have befallen other forms of society and economic structures. It normally seems to come from those who wouldn’t last 5 minutes in a true natural selection 0 society sum game as well, who benefit from their current protected position in society but don’t want to admit it.
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Look, I respect and appreciate the fact that you live in a polygamous camhouse, the likes of which would make Andrew Tate envious, but your argument here is as patchy and badly woven together as Donald Trump's toupee.
 
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