Josep Guardiola: is he actually a good manager?

Ok then. Pep is good, but will need to build again/be successful somewhere else before we truly know how good he is. My Nan could do as well with the current Barca side.

/thread.
 
The Running Man said:
i think the relevance comes from guard being compared to fergie and the difference is pep buys and plays players with all round ability whereas fergie buys and packs the teams with spare parts and it can work in the grind house of the premiership against stoke city but when you play against a team who'smanager insists on quality throughout you tend to see results like utd vs barca...
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The thread is about whether Guardiola is a good manager or not on his own merits, it's not really about comparisons to other managers and/or your personal axe to grind about them.

I'd say that Guardiola is currently a manager who has got a great team that is performing very well but I'd be somewhat loathe to call him a great manager just yet - for me that sort of recognition comes after a number of years performing at the highest level. He's almost certainly got the potential to be considered a great but after only a few years it just seems a little bit too soon.
 
Tom84 said:
Again that has nothing to do with this thread :rolleyes:
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So the ethos and player choice of the manager has no bearing given the op asks if he is a great manager or not? im confused how it could not be relevant...

Do you think that Guardiola is a brilliant manager, or is he lucky to have arguably the best club squad playing for him in the history of the game? Or both?
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he is a great manager because he gets high quality players and isnt afraid to stick someone like mascherano who can pass, control a ball etc into defence. and do it fairly creditably...

he doesnt for instance stick puyol into midfield, whereas other great managers have put players like jones or rafael into midfield with abhorrent consequences.

that is my point and it is very relevant to his success at barca, and therefore is critical to understanding his greatness. afterall everything is relative.
 
that's not a fact, that is an opinion.

it was infact you sham who brought up fergie and some comment about building multiple teams as a pre requisite for greatness. if you can compare him to what fergie did then why can't i? because i did it negatively by any chance?

i suggest you re read the first few posts and its not me who brought fergie up. i just tried to bring him back down to reality.
 
Getting the thread back on topic after once again NickG tries to turn it in to a bashing Fergie thread, as per.

I really like Pep, I think he's a good manager but as people have said he needs more time to become a great manager. He could stay at Barcelona for the rest of his career and produce more wonderfully talented sides and become an all time great.

He's remembered (rightly so) as a fantastic player and he's looked to continue the style of play that Barcelona enjoy and uses the youth system fantastically well.

I'd like to see him do a Fergie and stay with Barcelona for the next 20-30 years.
 
He has to do it at another club with a different team; it will then be down to his ability and not the players he has inherited. Hes a Barca product too don't forget. Last time I looked Jose was above him the table.

To me there is a better manager, especially if he manages to win the CL with RM.

I think its entirely relevent comparing him to whatever manager you like.
 
Tummy said:
Why does he have to do it at another club?
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Exactly.

It's not as if Messi or Xavi or whoever else in the current squad can play beyond their years just because it's Barcelona. It's how he replaces the old guard with the new and how they progress from that.
 
I think Guardiola is a very good manager but for all the shrewd moves like shifting out Ronaldinho and Deco, his overall transfer record is not good at all. His tactical experiments this season have been fairly disastrous as well, and almost feel like change for change's sake.

I hope he stays at Barca though because I'd like to see how he integrates the new players when Puyol, Xavi and Iniesta look at moving on.
 
Lets not forget Guardiola was in charge of the B team and helped to bring through a lot of the young talent that have made it in the first team.

Many would say that he has been successful due to the players at his disposal and his history with the club. He has done well and by the time he reaches the age of the likes of Ferguson and Trappatoni, judge him then rather than the short time he was spent as a manager.
 
He's in the right place at the right time there's no doubt about that, if his squad wasn't as exceptional as it is now they'd just be another Swansea playing attractive football but getting beat by better teams.

Saying that though a lot of managers may not have had as much success in his position so he does deserve some credit.
 
Tummy said:
Why does he have to do it at another club?
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I don't think it's so much doing it with another club, more doing it with another squad that's the issue here. Arsene Wenger has won titles with two very different Arsenal teams. Ferguson has won stuff with god knows how many Man Utd setups. That's why they're considered modern greats, even without changing clubs.

That said, Guardiola is undoubtedly a good manager based on current evidence. He's refined tiki-taka into an absolute art form, and he's as much a reason that the current Barcelona team are considered one of the best ever, as any individual player is. For all the talk of how good the players are, I didn't see anyone lauding Xavi or Iniesta that much before he took over.
 
Tummy said:
Getting the thread back on topic after once again NickG tries to turn it in to a bashing Fergie thread, as per.

I really like Pep, I think he's a good manager but as people have said he needs more time to become a great manager. He could stay at Barcelona for the rest of his career and produce more wonderfully talented sides and become an all time great.

He's remembered (rightly so) as a fantastic player and he's looked to continue the style of play that Barcelona enjoy and uses the youth system fantastically well.

I'd like to see him do a Fergie and stay with Barcelona for the next 20-30 years.
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No what happened was someone made a comment looking at the macro environment and made comments about his overall achievements vs some else. given he has had many fewer years to do as much. So does it not make sense to look at what he does on a micro perspective looking at the actions he takes from a tactical or personnel perspective that gives him the opportunity to win titles and become 'great'. by not analysing his actions and therefore contrasting his actions against others then how can you get any real perspective of whether he is doing a good enough job to be thought of as a great manager.

id actually best describe him as a coach, not a manager in the way say a dynastic manager like fergie is/was who controlled the entire football side of the club.
 
mmj_uk said:
He's in the right place at the right time there's no doubt about that, if his squad wasn't as exceptional as it is now they'd just be another Swansea playing attractive football but getting beat by better teams.
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You are aware that the Swansea team cost about 50p, is full of players who've played in the lower leagues for most of their life, and yet sit 8th in the Premier League, behind a collection of teams who probably spend more per week than they do annually?

There are better examples you could have picked. Heck, Swansea are outperforming Barcelona, all things being relative.
 
Weebull said:
There are better examples you could have picked. Heck, Swansea are outperforming Barcelona, all things being relative.
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way to go off topic..

because relatiely barcelona are under performing compared to last season and swansea are over performing compared to their own spend, i dont get how in relative terms swansea are out performing barcelona.

from an absolute perspective barcelona are doing much better than swansea, being what 2nd in the league and still in the champions league.

Barcelona are performing well, but relative to thweir own standards are slightly sub par with regards to league position. Relatively they are not performing worse than swansea.
 
The Running Man said:
way to go off topic..

because relatiely barcelona are under performing compared to last season and swansea are over performing compared to their own spend, i dont get how in relative terms swansea are out performing barcelona.

from an absolute perspective barcelona are doing much better than swansea, being what 2nd in the league and still in the champions league.

Barcelona are performing well, but relative to thweir own standards are slightly sub par with regards to league position. Relatively they are not performing worse than swansea.
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I'm not sure you get what I mean by relative here. Barcelona are one of the richest clubs in the world, with one of the biggest fanbases in football, and are currently the second best team in their country.

Swansea aren't even the biggest club in Wales and are the 8th best team in the Premier League. Ahead of bigger teams like Sunderland, Everton and Aston Villa (never mind Leeds, Leicester, Birmingham, etc).

I mean that Swansea are doing better relative to their own stature as a club than Barcelona are to theirs (basically because it's near impossible for Barca to over-achieve). Not how they are relative to one another.
 
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