Josep Guardiola: is he actually a good manager?

[Tummy]

I don't think it's so much doing it with another club, more doing it with another squad that's the issue here. Arsene Wenger has won titles with two very different Arsenal teams. Ferguson has won stuff with god knows how many Man Utd setups. That's why they're considered modern greats, even without changing clubs.

That said, Guardiola is undoubtedly a good manager based on current evidence. He's refined tiki-taka into an absolute art form, and he's as much a reason that the current Barcelona team are considered one of the best ever, as any individual player is. For all the talk of how good the players are, I didn't see anyone lauding Xavi or Iniesta that much before he took over.

I agree with this. Pep doesn't need to do it with another club, he needs to get another eleven players to do this thing again

I'm not sure you get what I mean by relative here. Barcelona are one of the richest clubs in the world, with one of the biggest fanbases in football, and are currently the second best team in their country.

Swansea aren't even the biggest club in Wales and are the 8th best team in the Premier League. Ahead of bigger teams like Sunderland, Everton and Aston Villa (never mind Leeds, Leicester, Birmingham, etc).

I mean that Swansea are doing better relative to their own stature as a club than Barcelona are to theirs (basically because it's near impossible for Barca to over-achieve). Not how they are relative to one another.

It's ok. Some of us understood the point you were making

 

[Nate75]

dunno if it's been mentioned in this thread (off to work - no time to read!) but this morning on Talk Sport said the paper talk is all about a £40 million net offer for Pep to manage Chelsea :O

 

[Robbo]

dunno if it's been mentioned in this thread (off to work - no time to read!) but this morning on Talk Sport said the paper talk is all about a £40 million net offer for Pep to manage Chelsea :O

It doesn't matter who the new Chelsea manager is, a lot of funds will be required to ship in a load of new players.

Even with a huge budget he'd be crazy to trade Barcelona for Chelsea.

 

[Maundie]

Wonder how much money he's on because if I was him I wouldn't take any other job after Barce because he's never going to get that 'team' again (ie 5 of the best players in their position in the world).

If he's earnt enough I'd just retire rather than sully my name at another club after Barce because I don't he could expect that level at any other club (especially not at Chelsea where you get a fortnight to sort the problems or get sacked!!)

 

[FNGsam]

Wonder how much money he's on because if I was him I wouldn't take any other job after Barce because he's never going to get that 'team' again (ie 5 of the best players in their position in the world).

If he's earnt enough I'd just retire rather than sully my name at another club after Barce because I don't he could expect that level at any other club (especially not at Chelsea where you get a fortnight to sort the problems or get sacked!!)

A lot of people do their job because they love it though not necessarily for the payment.

I'm guessing as sadly I'm not a highly paid sports star or manager that this is even more so the case with people in his or similar position.

 

[Gilly]

You mention that under guardiola barca have reach the same number of ucl final as utd. You fail to mention that he has won both finals he's reach.

That's because it's totally irrelevant

 

[mp260767]

can't see pep going anywhere else, he's barca through and through, wouldn't be surprised if he called it a day when his time at barca is up purely due to him having no interest in other clubs.

i think this season has been been good for him as a manager, in the sense that other teams in the league are adapting the way they play against them, will be interesting to see what he's learnt and if he is able to transfer that via the closed season to improve there performance again.

EDIT:

Interesting mention of barca maybe making an offer/interested in david luiz at chelsea.

 

[Jano]

The only other team I can see him ever managing is the Spain national side.

 

[FeFiDoh]

Got to say I quite admire Pep.
Arguably one of the toughest places to be a manager due to the huge expectations when the rivals are one of Europe's most successful clubs.
He has made that team what it is, he has them playing that way with that style and that winning mentality.
He got rid of trouble makers, made the team bond as a unit and has got them to where they are now.

A lot of this is probably because he came through the club himself so its his ideology already.
He also brought players through from the B team that barely had a game there (Pedro) and look how well he was for 1/2 seasons before being injured more this one.
Hate to admit it as well because I was not a fan of Mascherano when at Liverpool and I was amazed to see Barcelona sign him but the has become quite the player since being there. Probably one of the most versatile in the team now what with playing DCM and CB and doing both rather well.

Yes it quite clearly helps having the likes of Messi/Xavi/Iniesta but quite clearly he has amazing man management skills as the players love to play for him which has to be one of the most important aspects when being a manager.

Moving Messi from the wing and giving him free roam has made a huge amount of difference to the team as well.
The 3 at the back thing, he had to experiment really. Their plan A has worked for so long they need to try and mix it up as teams become familiar with their style. Ok it didn't work but he wasn't scared of trying it.

I am a bit of a Chelsea fan as well and I seriously hope Pep does not go there, they don't deserve to have anyone like him tbh the job is a poison chalice and it will do no one any good. Good forbid anyone that takes that position.

 

[Neutralmilk]

I think he's a good manager but he gets too much praise for the team he has when most came through the ranks.

He's spent €275M since he has been in charge with quite a few of them being flops. Check out some of the transfers he has made that are total failures.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sid_lowe/03/31/guardiola.transfers/index.html

 

[FC1983]

if his squad wasn't as exceptional as it is now they'd just be another Swansea playing attractive football but getting beat by better teams.

Like Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool? You might want to check some Swansea scores and the league table. It's taken us a while to mature into the league, but we are hardly just getting beat by better teams. On paper, 99% of the teams are better than us player for player.

 

[placeholder]

I think there has to be a variance of some description in anything to prove its not a fluke. Guardiola is clearly very very good based on his record.

That might be because he is simply an ok coach steeped in the Barca ethos who has benefited from a number of factors coming together at once. Or it could be he is a great great coach who has made these things happen.

The only way to test it is to change some of the other variables. Either oversee the rebuilding of a team, move to another club or move to another country and do it all over again.

In my eyes to be a true great you have to do it at multiple clubs or at the same club over an extended period of time.

 

[Bassmansam]

Anyone else think there is too much emphasis on managers in general? E.g. if Pep Guardiola left and was replaced. Are Barca players going to lose their ability?

 

[Tom84]

Anyone else think there is too much emphasis on managers in general? E.g. if Pep Guardiola left and was replaced. Are Barca players going to lose their ability?

To argue that though take Chelsea from where they were under Jose and where they went under Grant and then Scolari. Fair play Grant got them in the UCL Final and and they did end up finishing second that season thanks to another Arsenal implosion but for the most part that season they were pretty run of the mill and they were down right average under Scolari.

A massive part is the managers ability to motivate the players though so it is quite possible if Pep did go and Barca replaced him with lets say AVB then there's a good chance they may not be as successful as they were under Guardiola.

Motivational skills will only get you so far though as Spurs fans will no doubt testify with Arry

 

[KNiVES]

I would say Pep is an extremely good manager - his trophy collection says much about it. He just hasn't had the chance to build his history as his career is still in its infancy. You would be hard-pressed to find a better start elsewhere though.

 

[The Running Man]

I'm not sure you get what I mean by relative here. Barcelona are one of the richest clubs in the world, with one of the biggest fanbases in football, and are currently the second best team in their country.

Swansea aren't even the biggest club in Wales and are the 8th best team in the Premier League. Ahead of bigger teams like Sunderland, Everton and Aston Villa (never mind Leeds, Leicester, Birmingham, etc).

I mean that Swansea are doing better relative to their own stature as a club than Barcelona are to theirs (basically because it's near impossible for Barca to over-achieve). Not how they are relative to one another.

i understand your sentiment but because you are 2 relative clauses away from reality the comparison becomes moot.

Swansea are performing very well, relative to expectation.
Barcelona are performing well relative to expectation (just trounced someone in europe by a european record?)

Swansea are therefore doing better relative to expectation relative to the performance of barcelona relative to their expectation.

i hope you see that by adding so many relative clauses what you are contrasting is something relative to something which is relative to something else.

You cant take second for barca as being a bad performance, as i stated earlier they are surely outspent in the financial department by the most successful ever club side (Real) and therefore depending on how you look at it barca are either doing well, or very well, just not as exceptionally as they have done previously.

 

[One More Solo]

That just reads like nonsense to me, there is nothing wrong with what Weebull said and it makes perfect sense.

 

[The Running Man]

Not at all, its nonsensical to compare something that has been measured relatively, relatively to something that has also been compared relatively.

Especially when there is no direct connection between the items of discussion, because then it is also a higher degree of personal interpretation and is completely subject to personal opionion of not only what the expectation was but also the merits of perfmance for 2 entities and then you have to contrast those relatively against each other?

i.e you have so many emotional instances here:

swansea expectation
swanse perfromance
barcelona expectation
barcelona performance

then comparison between the two...each one of those 4 above are completely subjective as i said, throw in 2-3 relativity clauses and the output is basically nonsense to anyone but the speaker.

 

[Shamikebab]

the output is basically nonsense to anyone but the speaker.

Well that sums it up neatly.

 

[One More Solo]

Not at all, its nonsensical to compare something that has been measured relatively, relatively to something that has also been compared relatively.

Eh? It's so simple. Preseason where would Barcelona expect to finish? 2nd at an absolute minimum. Where would Swansea have expected (or rather hoped) to finish? 17th. A quick glance at most pundit's preseason predictions had Swansea down as relegation fodder. No sane promoted team would have expectations above that.

Who is performing above those expectations? It's neither emotional nor subjective.