Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay

Kenai said:
Perhaps the public could help out by proposing an agreement to reduce the requested 35% figure by 5% for an evening of clapping?

If we clapped seven days a week, the problem would go away entirely.
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I think the NHS union members have mocked the public over the clapping enough that there wont be any more clapping :D
 
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Uther said:
You can see just from this thread the lack of respect some people have for doctors here now.
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I respect doctors ... I try to respect everyone.... I don't respect doctors more than dentists or builders or plumbers etc just because of their choice of career.
I believe a fair days work for a fair days pay. whether or not 30k is unfair pay for someone 2 years out of med school is the debate..... and maybe it isn't fair but if so there are plenty worse off.
that is not about not respecting doctors however.

the massive debt they hold is something I sympathise with as someone who graduated without any fees. personally as I said earlier that is where I would make changes 1st (on condition they remain in NHS)
 
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I think they're been too reasonable by opening at restoring 2008 equivalent pay levels tbh. When the gov finally agree to sit down they'll want something off that 35%.

Given national average is what 30k? even 40k start sounds too low for a doctor.
 
Semple said:
The current situation is unsustainable, absolutely right. The public as a whole need to either become more healthier, less of a burden on the NHS. Or pay more through taxation for the service. There's no middle ground.
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Or an alternative, if people aren't willing to pay, is that we accept a limit on our lifespan and treatment for certain illnesses. Ultimately this is a public funded service and so what people are willing to pay or can afford to pay is a significant constraint.

thenewoc said:
Don't know but it seems a ridiculous staffing structure if people are being held in JD roles for 10 years before making it to consultant. They could probably do with some intermediary roles with gradually more responsibilities. The Trust's should have the autonomy to advance people up through pay bands.
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They progress based on years of service. Wouldn't that be great in the private sector too, if all we had to do to double our pay in 10 years was just build up years of experience. I'm not saying doctors don't work hard or deserve decent pay, but they do already have a good deal compared to lots of other roles.

n111ck said:
Yes the government were too generous but the public lapped it up.
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Including people here if I recall. When others were saying that this is going to damage the economy, and it did. Many of us were lucky to be able to work from home on full pay the whole time, and lots of people didn't have that luxury, so I don't know whether there was any alternative really but nevertheless it was mismanaged and the extent of the lockdowns/support probably excessive.

Minstadave said:
figure is important to them as it represents whats been lost over time and has been quietly taken on the chin year after year
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Same as most of us in the private sector then?
 
Looks that it will be confirmed that the nurses are predictably going to reject the AfC offer today as well. Can't see any of these issues being resolved for the rest of this govt's term.
 
danlightbulb said:
Including people here if I recall. When others were saying that this is going to damage the economy, and it did.
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And how much damage to the economy do you think would have been done if no support was given and the amount of businesses that would have gone to the wall eith the corresponding job losses? The furlough money was a pittance compared to what that would have cost.

Honestly, people are so shortsighted at times.
 
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n111ck said:
Its the public that doesn't want to pay back all the furlough money etc.

Yes the government were too generous but the public lapped it up.
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I think furlough was a necessary step. I have no problem paying back the legitimate furlough cash but am angry at the dodgy deals buying PPE much of it either didn't show up, was not usable and cost a fortune, or the insanely expensive track and trace system which didn't even work. it is the corruption and incompetence which angers me.
I also hope anyone found guilty of exploiting it get the book thrown at them.
I didn't even get any furlough, I worked through as did my wife (she had to increase her hrs as a key worker) . I admit at the time when approaching meltdown I was really jealous of my neighbours chilling at home through lockdown on furlough whilst my wife and I struggled with a 4 year old and increased work load , but it was needed.
 
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Freakbro said:
And how much damage to the economy do you think would have been done if no support was given and the amount of businesses that would have gone to the wall eith the corresponding job losses? The furlough money was a pittance compared to what that would have cost.

Honestly, people are so shortsighted at times.
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There was no easy answer, someone was going to suffer in any scenario, it was just a matter of choice.
 
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