Argentina, Turkey, Venezuela and many other struggling countries would all like to say hello.
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Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay
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Argentina, Turkey, Venezuela and many other struggling countries would all like to say hello.
Caporegime
They aren't getting paid 3x more in Australia and cost of living is higher over there.
How much I earn as a junior doctor in Australia vs. the NHS
Hey friends, today I'm showing you how much I am earning as a doctor in the Australia and comparing it with my NHS salary. If you are thinking of making the ...
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This is a reasonable comparison despite some of the numbers not quite adding up and the years compared being different (year 2 vs year 3). Shes paid 50-75% more in Australia.
As to the UK hating public sector employees, part of that is that our public sector is full of people who are utterly useless at their jobs but are never sacked. My partner works in a hospital and for all the great staff they have, they have a large chunk of them that are a nightmare and there is nothing they can do about it.
If you want to know how Australia doesn't have some of the same issues as the UK perhaps you should ask yourself why Qutar and Saudi Arabia are so wealthy... natural resources. When you can quite literally pull money out of the ground its a little easier to have a rich, well funded country. They also don't have immigration issues like we do. They have masses of land to use. They aren't an old country like us with a legacy infrastructure that is really expensive to maintain or change.
There are many reasons. Australia isn't some wonderful, well run utopia some people like to think.
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Soldato
Great so the UK is getting compared to those car crashes now.
That's what over a decade of crap government gets you...
Pretty much, yes.
There is no point giving massive wage increases if inflation is going to persist.
Secondly, if Australia was so amazing then why have more people not moved?
UK is not alone in people striking, look at the recent Dr Strikes in France. There are many people who work in the NHS who are actually lazy, off sick all the time etc. It is easy to get carried away in the fantasies of strikes but the reality is very different.
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why be selective in comparison? Government have had a lot to deal with. Not as if anyone predicted corona and war.
Soldato
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I was bored yesterday in a dull online meeting and wanted to see how my pay had faired against the percentile national averages over my career. I started out in 2001 at the 63rd percentile for both before and after tax using ONS stats, which surprised me as a graduate starting salary. Our latest intake joined the 75th percentile 
I noticed that the 20 tax years from 2001 to 2020 the top percentiles (70-99) had risen about 64-68% before tax and similar after tax over the 20 years and RPI had risen by 70% so they had marginally fallen behind RPI to 2020.
The lower percentiles (20th to 1st) had risen by 100% to 167% versus RPI of 70%. Also the majority of that rise had occurred on a year on year increase basis after 2011. I was somewhat surprised by this. But I do accept it doesn't take into account the relative cost of living just RPI and income.
edit: I'll also accept I'm no economist or statistician so there may be more sophisticated and accurate ways of interpreting that data.
I noticed that the 20 tax years from 2001 to 2020 the top percentiles (70-99) had risen about 64-68% before tax and similar after tax over the 20 years and RPI had risen by 70% so they had marginally fallen behind RPI to 2020.
The lower percentiles (20th to 1st) had risen by 100% to 167% versus RPI of 70%. Also the majority of that rise had occurred on a year on year increase basis after 2011. I was somewhat surprised by this. But I do accept it doesn't take into account the relative cost of living just RPI and income.
edit: I'll also accept I'm no economist or statistician so there may be more sophisticated and accurate ways of interpreting that data.
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Caporegime
Public sector pay is not driving inflation. The point of wage increases is to try and retain staff primarily and keep the healthcare system functioning.
Regarding more people not moving, the number moving is steadily increasing year on year, speciality training entry rates are falling. It's happening now. We're also reliant on international medical graduates but we're becoming far less attractive to them.
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We've also got (as has been repeated on here many times) NHS staff working privately to top-up their income, and with the nature of the work (generally the same type of low-risk elective procedures with patients who aren't waiting as long so their condition isn't deteriorating) I wonder if it also comes with less stress?
Because of the staff shortages and lack of availability to do overtime, we're having to rely on private providers to tackle the waiting lists. Private healthcare is usually still PbR (pay-as-you-go essentially, or at least was the last time I checked) whereas Trusts are usually cheaper as they're on some form of block contract based on planned activity, so as we become more dependent on private providers we become less efficient and so costs spiral.
There needs to be a period of time to allow the NHS to breathe - accept that there might be a few years where the budget has to increase significantly to allow for measures in dealing with recruitment, retention and the waiting lists which will lower our dependence on private providers, save money in the long-run and stop the situation from deteriorating further.
We also need to do the same for social care, education, legal aid, the civil service - the list goes on.
Instead it's likely that any pay rises will mostly be unfunded, exacerbating the problem.
Because of the staff shortages and lack of availability to do overtime, we're having to rely on private providers to tackle the waiting lists. Private healthcare is usually still PbR (pay-as-you-go essentially, or at least was the last time I checked) whereas Trusts are usually cheaper as they're on some form of block contract based on planned activity, so as we become more dependent on private providers we become less efficient and so costs spiral.
There needs to be a period of time to allow the NHS to breathe - accept that there might be a few years where the budget has to increase significantly to allow for measures in dealing with recruitment, retention and the waiting lists which will lower our dependence on private providers, save money in the long-run and stop the situation from deteriorating further.
We also need to do the same for social care, education, legal aid, the civil service - the list goes on.
Instead it's likely that any pay rises will mostly be unfunded, exacerbating the problem.
So what you're saying is, after 12 years of Tory "government", we all just need to accept being poorer
Except the usual suspects (the 1%) who managed to increase their wealth during Covid and in every other year, too.
Btw, it's hardly only Australia that's taking our nurses and doctors. Various European countries are benefitting, too, from the UK's disastrous mismanagement (and under-appreciation) of our NHS.
Interesting to note that many young doctors still don't think the NHS will be around for too much longer. Somebody is going to "reform" it, be it the Tories or Starmer's Tory tribute act.
So what you're saying is, after 12 years of Tory "government", we all just need to accept being poorer
Except the usual suspects (the 1%) who managed to increase their wealth during Covid and in every other year, too.
Btw, it's hardly only Australia that's taking our nurses and doctors. Various European countries are benefitting, too, from the UK's disastrous mismanagement (and under-appreciation) of our NHS.
Interesting to note that many young doctors still don't think the NHS will be around for too much longer. Somebody is going to "reform" it, be it the Tories or Starmer's Tory tribute act.
DId the tories create Covid? Come on lets get with reality. They kept people in jobs via furlough and pumped in lots of money.
NHS has had lots of funding but it all goes down the drain.
Many international doctors come to NHS too so works both ways.
Caporegime
Unfunded payrise - how are the Gov expecting that to work?
It doesn't. Same way last year they "awarded" 4.5%. It's meaningless.
Equivalent of me walking into a random business and saying "hi you're all awarded a pay rise" then walking out.
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same with the nurses payrise if you have them on agenda for change contracts which we do so their payrise is a hefty paycut for me. they need to provide something meaningful in the GMS contract next year, but I'll not hold my breath
Caporegime
The NHS is just a massive milk for private companies to get rich at the tax payers expense. Until that changes nothing will change.
None of them are funded
If you employ them as GP why are they paid under AFC
We just always have historically since afc came in, it’s pretty common locally. To now not do that has consequences as in essence giving them worse terms so understandably you upset them. The local nursing pool is small, not quite as bad as the doctor pool, but not great either
Do staff on AFC at say band 8a stay on same pay for 5 years then?