Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay

I know some here think the NHS no longer works and should be scrapped in favour of a privatised system (I have friends who feel that way too - I don't I have yet to see a privatised service in the UK improve things.).

I admit I am not clued in on the details however Spain has something similar to NHS doesn't it and as I understand it their health care is pretty good.

what do they do different to us and do they pay more fairly?
 
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bigmike20vt said:
I know some here think the NHS no longer works and should be scrapped in favour of a privatised system (I have friends who feel that way too - I don't I have yet to see a privatised service in the UK improve things.).

I admit I am not clued in on the details however Spain has something similar to NHS doesn't it and as I understand it their health care is pretty good.

what do they do different to us and do they pay more fairly?
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"Most primary healthcare in Spain is free. Residents only need to pay a proportion of prescription charges as well as regular public health insurance payments. However, if they need specialized medical care, they might face additional costs. This is when private medical insurance comes in handy."

The bit in bold would put me off their system..


The NHS should allow private companies into A&E / Urgent Care and other IMO - I'd pay a premium to skip the queue for stuff that doesn't need specialist dr's / equipment - that would then reduce the public queues..
 
bigmike20vt said:
iirc (and it may be an article from the express so I would not hang my hat on it) Nicola Sturgeon voted AGAINST rolling out some of this to the whole of the UK because it was too expensive !
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I want aware the devolved governments had a say in England only matters so you're right, I wouldn't hang your hat on that article.

n111ck said:
Lol no it doesn't we know where the money comes from..
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Uh-huh :cry: :cry:
 
Richie said:
I want aware the devolved governments had a say in England only matters so you're right, I wouldn't hang your hat on that article.



Uh-huh :cry: :cry:
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They do sometimes, for instance the SNP voted against changing the restricted Sunday trading hours in England and Wales in 2016. Scotland can trade for how ever many hours they like on Sunday, but on an English and Welsh only change, they voted no.
 
Richie said:
I stand corrected... I don't fully understand their reasoning behind it though :confused:
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Was to do with Sunday pay rates in Scotland if you can believe it. Can't have fair competition, so they voted on a law on English and Welsh matters. Anyway, it's off topic. Back on topic, I have read the government won't be making any announcements, or holding discussions until the other unions have decided to accept the offer or not. Can see this dragging on and on, I don't think Junior Doctors will get any answers for a long time. The longer it stretches, the worse it is going to get, especially if consultants vote to strike. The summer of discontent and a collapsing government maybe?
 
casper_uk said:
Was to do with Sunday pay rates in Scotland if you can believe it. Can't have fair competition, so they voted on a law on English and Welsh matters. Anyway, it's off topic. Back on topic, I have read the government won't be making any announcements, or holding discussions until the other unions have decided to accept the offer or not. Can see this dragging on and on, I don't think Junior Doctors will get any answers for a long time. The longer it stretches, the worse it is going to get, especially if consultants vote to strike. The summer of discontent and a collapsing government maybe?
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For how long it's taken to get this far I can't see another round of strikes>discussion>offer>vote happening before the summer recess which is only three months away. This is going to be baked in until winter imo.

*edit* summer recess starts 20th July until around the 4th Sept.
 
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How do you see this playing out? Probably most politicians could see a private GP and have private medical care, so they can continue to play hard ball. People are and will suffer so what's going to give?

Even a 10% payrise for nurses and junior doctors would have a snow ball effect wouldn't it, causing more public sector strikes?
 
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With Hunt as Chancellor he will undoubtably dig his heels in, he's proven in the past that he enjoys the role of pantomime villain with the junior doctor contracts of a few years ago. I think it's interesting that RCN voted no but Unison heavily voted for, I'm not sure how they deal with that as they're all not he same AfC pay scales, unless this results in the nurses having their own scale which has been mooted. If that happens though then I can't see that going down well within the various staffing groups.
 
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Goodie said:
With Hunt as Chancellor he will undoubtably dig his heels in, he's proven in the past that he enjoys the role of pantomime villain with the junior doctor contracts of a few years ago. I think it's interesting that RCN voted no but Unison heavily voted for, I'm not sure how they deal with that as they're all not he same AfC pay scales, unless this results in the nurses having their own scale which has been mooted. If that happens though then I can't see that going down well within the various staffing groups.
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I suspect (although haven't seen the figures) that the RCN has the higher paid members of AfC whilst Unison may be more the lower paid tier. The lump some aspect may well appeal to the lower paid.
 
Another month, another strike, another lump of cash thrown at the wrong people to hide the problem rather than doing the right thing.

Shame the nursing turn out was poor as those that did vote were very much in favour of ongoing IA.

Interestingly rather than negotiate with the JDs to fix the issue NHSE is planning to try and reduce the cost of Consultant cover during the strikes by forming a cartel of Trusts to try and drive the price they'll pay down. Totally sensible long term solution......
 
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Strike number 4 or 5? Off we go again.

Not great timing with the Gov planning to undercut the DDRBs recommended 6.5% pay rise. The Government have always used the DDRBs recommendations as an excuse for not giving higher payrises but now they've gone a step further and are undercutting even the DDRBs recommendation.
 
hurfdurf said:
Pay them in claps. The uk public does not deserve quality Drs or Nurses, and when the public need them I hope the medical quality is not there for them, and the public suffer massively.
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Imagine actively wanting people to suffer. What a twisted ****. You should be banned for such a disgusting post.
 
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Minstadave said:
Strike number 4 or 5? Off we go again.

Not great timing with the Gov planning to undercut the DDRBs recommended 6.5% pay rise. The Government have always used the DDRBs recommendations as an excuse for not giving higher payrises but now they've gone a step further and are undercutting even the DDRBs recommendation.
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It will keep happening, when nurses and doctors can go abroad (eg Australia) and earn 3x as much, and have a better work/life balance. They keep interviewing people on TV who have done just that, and reminding us all how ***** it is to work for the NHS.

The UK really hates its public sector employees. It's 0% surprising when they leave.

e: And when the UK govt keeps saying, "We can't afford to pay more," then how do other countries apparently not have the same difficulty?
 
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