Just dropped a deposit on some M Power - Trackday Project Car

[Gibbo]

Interior is coming along.

Just door cards to finish now and then decide on either a cage or harness bar.

Much nicer inside and when just gently driving is very quiet inside, but when on it has a lovely CSL sound track without being over powering, car is silly quick as well.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi Gibbo, I asked in the beemer thread, but id get a better answer out of you. Whats the SMG gearbox like in these? Worth a shot or avoid like the plague?

Drive it like an auto and well its pretty useless.

Drive it like a manual and its pretty fantastic, its the closest you will get to a sequential in a road car without actually fitting a sequential.

I drive mine in manual mode 90% of the time.

Of course SMG adds some weight and they do have their issues, SMG pump failures being an expensive repair, about £1200. So a manual is more reliable.

Drive both, buy the one you prefer.

 

[Gibbo]

I should really evaluate some other options on the MR2. I've always used R888s because they were cheap when we started out. Nowadays a full set of tyres is a significant investment that will last me a full season at least so I can't afford to buy something just to try them. The R888 is a known quantity that most of us use so I'm not losing anything by sticking with what I know but there could be an advantage to be had if I can find something better.

Based on your experiences what are your thoughts on the best road legal semi slick from cold? Most of the feedback out there is from racers/trackdayers where they have a chance to get the tyre up to temperature and have to avoid overheating them on a long run, for us sprinting, we want something that will be switched on immediately and our run is all over within 80-90 seconds so overheating is a non-issue.

I have a road / track car and have used many, here is some input from me as to how quick/easy they are to get heat into from my own personal experience of using them:-

Michelin cup: Best all out dry grip on track, OK for getting heat into and OK when warm in wet, useless in cold/wet conditions. Very expensive! Pretty low tyre noise which is why they are an o.e. fit on a lot of cars, GT3 etc.

AD08: The best for working from cold and the best in the wet too, but not quite the dry grip of R888 or cup. But as a positive cheaper and last longer. AD08-R is marketed as being better in both dry and wet, plus works even better from cold. I think the AD08-R could be your best tyre for sprinting.

R888: Excellent dry grip, pretty much on par with the cup and very good on lighter cars, whereas cup is more suited to heavier coupes/saloons. A lot of road noise though as a downside and can be hard to get heat into in the wet.

595-RSR: The worse for getting heat into and the performance of them when cold is shockingly poor, once heated up they are good in the dry and acceptable in the wet.

NS-2R: Not tried this one myself but the soft compound for sprint/track work is getting a lot of positive feedback, easy to get heat into and very good dry grip with OK wet ability. Medium compound last longer but harder to heat up.

Kumho V70R: Mate had these, rated them well but then he went to cups and did say the cups were better in the dry and easier to get heat into if that helps for comparison.


If I were you if you want guaranteed best for sprint, AD08-R seems a good bet, but if your willing to take a gamble try the NS-2R in soft compound.

 

[Gibbo]

Bear in mind we're talking 90 seconds sprints here.

None of those tyres will compare to soft V70's (or another soft compound tyre) over that short distance. For circuits, different story but I have AD08-R's and I would certainly not be recommending them as the best tyre for sprinting.

Before the sprint, are you allowed to say drive your car around, warm it up etc or do you literally jump in a cold car, engine, tyres and then just thrash it up the hill.

Never done sprinting so no idea, I can only give feedback on how I have found the above tyres on the road and for me the AD08-R had the most initial grip and also worked the best in single digit temperatures, again on a road car on the road.

If you can warm the car up, drive it around before the sprint then yet definitely go for one of the sticky tyres and on the V70 my mate was using medium compound, not soft which of course makes a difference.

 

[Gibbo]

Trial fitted some 12mm spacers I had on the rear, looked brilliant and should just about clear. Waiting on some new bolts to arrive and shall fit them and road test. If all is well shall take some photos, if not will get some 8mm ordered.

Might cause a little more understeer widening rear track but hopefully won't be noticeable as looks so much better with rear wheels spaced out a little.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Had enough of my rear wheels looking a little lost in the rear arches, so put my Eibach 12mm spacers on with longer bolts:-


Before:-

After:-

Looks even better in person, not sure how it will effect handling but initial drive and seems to be no rubbing.

 

[Gibbo]

You are probably aware of this but you do understand that increasing rear track will also increase under steer.

Yup, had a good drive, can't really tell any difference on the road understeer wise as I've got the car setup so it gives a hint of understeer at the limit at exiting a corner which can be transitioned to oversteer with loud pedal action.

Overall on the road it feels a little better and looks much better, the track will be real test and if understeer is an issue they are removed easily.

 

[Gibbo]

That promotes under steer. You need them the other way round to promote over steer.

This.

If its a major issue I just buy an adjustable slightly thicker rear ARB. Am currently running CSL version which is 22.5mm in the rear so an adjustable 24mm rear one would do the trick if I feel I want to fine tune the balance further.

 

[Gibbo]

*awaits the arrival of your new 24mm ARB next week*

Shall be visiting the track first, to see how it all feels, may not be required.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Door cards are done and look superb, car now looks very nice inside:-

I shall probably put back in the front window pillard covers and the fabric roof as it weighs pretty much nothing and it will look look pretty normal inside. Essentially what an M3 GTS would look like inside, just need the cage now to finish it off and maybe CSL airbox if I can get a deal.

With the rear seat delete in place car on a cruise is pretty silent now, no squeaks or rattles and road noise vastly reduced and when you accelerate hard you can hear a lovely exhaust note, very CSL sounding in the car.

Very happy with the car, its quicker than my CSL and more fun to drive both road and track now. I've built a car that performs superbly well on track and is still a nice place to be on the road and very usable.

Shall need to get car re-weighed but I'd guess its around 1330-1350kg, a cage will be around 20-30kg additional.

 

[Gibbo]

Looks really good, I like the spacers on the rear!

Do you have any plans to change the steering wheel out of interest? I suppose it would be a pain to get the paddles changed (assuming they move with the wheel?)

We need a video the prove the sound!

Videos are in previous post.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there


OK trial fitted some stock 18" wheels to rear with Conti 255/40/18 tyres to see if it fits without rubbing and 12mm spacers and all is OK. Pictures:-

Gonna try on front tonight, to see if they fit, if they do this means when I have worn the cups down I can then fit SuperSports in 255/40/18 no problem all round on my Apex 18x9 wheels.

For comparison sake, the Apex with 265/35/18 cups weigh in at 20.4kg whereas as the stock M3 wheels with 255/40/18 conti's weigh in at 25.4kg.

That's 5kg saving per corner, 20kg overall but its unsprung mass so more like getting a good 50kg out the car. So in a way its a shame that its not the Apex wheels getting the slick tyres as that would give the best track performance/times. Just need one more 18x9 stock M3 wheel now and then I have four and can get some slicks fitted. Then the Apex will eventually bit fitted with SuperSports and will be my road and wet track tyre setup.


One more picture of door cards:-

 

[Gibbo]

CSL Airbox and lightweight / new pulleys, am also going to remove viscous fan too as its very heavy and saps engine power and on track probably hinders cooling. Shall leave the AC fan in place which does most the cooling and if I have any issues shall just get an electric fan for the radiator.

Car shall be having the full boot floor welding and resin re-inforcement done in September at Mprove.
Dropped it off for resin re-inforcement treatment at weekend but upon investigation there is a 15mm crack in the boot floor where the axle carrier is.
So its going to cost more, but as I know the owner its a very fair price and it will add more in re-sale value for any prospective buyers knowing the boot floor has being welded/resin re-inforced, but as its mates rates, has to wait until September, perfectly safe to drive, afterall its taken 12 years to crack 15mm.




P.S. Red circle on air box is where I shall re-locate the IAT too to prevent heatsoak, this should yield best performance and is where Evolve advice I locate it.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

For those who have not heard a CSL, check out this video for the sound difference

Hopefully I will have something very similar.

 

[Gibbo]

Love the sound of the CSL airbox! The cost of them is bonkers but worth it for that sound

I got it very cheap, mate just supercharged his M3, so no longer needed the air box.

 

[Gibbo]

Fancy bringing it out to Donington 31 July evening? Am going with a couple of mates.

Got a link so I can book it?

 

[Gibbo]

Think we all knew a CSL airbox would happen eventually Looking forward to hearing it when it's complete.

Shall make a video, getting excited for Friday now.

 

[Gibbo]

You'd not be allowed back if you didn't make a video of this!!!!


When is your next track day to check out the performance difference?

20BHP will make no difference on track.

Next outing probably end of July, gonna take it easy on track usage until boot floor is repaired, then I shall be doing a lot and moving over to slicks, they will give me 3-4s reduction if I am brave enough to believe in them.

 

[Gibbo]

so.....when you supercharging yours

Won't be, I don't like the drive characteristics, turns them into a track car only as on the road you loose 1st, 2nd and most of 3rd gear as they will simply spin the wheels even in the dry, unless its a full weight M3.

Yes as a track car it works, for example my mate at Spa was passing the 458 Challenge cars, which were well driven too, think he was around 2:40 region at Spa, insanely fast, his M3 is 1420kg and 480-550BHP, no idea on exact figure as he aint interested, he just drives it, but that is 30s a lap faster than what Chris was doing in his 400+ coil over and brake upgraded EVO.
He also drove the car off the speedo, about 185mph GPS indicated so charged they are flippin quick indeed, though an Enzo pulled 211mph GPS on the way down as well.

Plus it cost 7k area fully fitted and it won't add 7k in value and on the road it would spoil the car and I do enjoy driving it on the road, its nearly as much fun as the 911 now its more or less finished.

 

[Gibbo]

sorry to drop this in your thread but i didnt know where else to put it.

When we all had the conversation about donnington lap times in regards to elises I spoke to a guy who races them and develops parts for them and he told me this

'Consider I have got round donington back in 1999 in a pretty standard S1 (Sport 190 with ~175hp) with no aero whatsoever in a 1:19 on road tyres (and I do mean road tyres not semi-slicks), I do not consider 1:17 a particularly hard target for TA with almost zero regs to stick to'


'Last time i did donington was about 2 weeks ago, in an Exige with ~230hp, a smallish rear wing, on kuhmo v70's, no splitter, etc etc, just a normal looking Exige.

It was easy to do sub 16's, like i said before, that's a soft target'


anyway your car is looking great, so with slicks you should be pretty fast! if i can get the rear toe link setup finished I might join you at donnington as I really need to get mine on track, be good to compare

Someone who races them says it all. A race driver can easily be a good 10s a lap faster.

My mate is lapping 1:15's at Donnington in his super charged M3 on slicks, he is just a guy who does track days, never raced.

Let's see what time you can do, I could hand my car as it is now to race a driver on cup tyres and it would do 1:17 lap, on slicks even faster, driver is the biggest factor in any car.

My mate thegoose can pilot a rental Golf GTD in sub 1:28, he is a race driver in Porsche 944 cup series with several wins.

If you manage sub 1:25 on your first outing you will be doing well, anything under 1:20 seriously so.

Remember the E46 M3 Simpsons have is doing sub 1:10 I believe, again race driver in a race car.