Just dropped a deposit on some M Power - Trackday Project Car

[Gibbo]

Why did it gain 23hp going from Evolve's to Powerstation's dyno - were some bits added? Kinda lost in the number of mods

Explained in the summary, the car was hot and the ECU pulled ignition, hence the lower result that time at Powerstation, their fan simulates 60mph headwind, yet the car is reaching 170mph on the dyno, things got hot, hence the lower figure.

Last run on Evolves dyno was 370BHP, the only change today was de-cats and obviously dyno type. So I'd suspect on Evolves dyno it would be in the 375 region.

This is a good reason for the CSL ECU or CSL conversion as ignition won't get pulled so easily.

 

[Gibbo]

good old powerstation rollers eh

Yet Toms Merc was pretty much bang on, 525PS and it put down 516BHP today. A Carrera 997.1 C2S also ran, IPD plenum, GT3 throttlebody, it put down 354BHP stock, after modifications it was 357BHP, stock power on a C2S is 355PS I think, I should know I own one but no idea if its PS or BHP. Fact is the rollers seemed pretty damn accurate to me.

If they are out, it is not by much, car put down 370BHP on Evolves dyno not long ago with the cats in place. Now it is de-catted, both cold air intakes are plumbed into the air box and the colder weather helped prevent the ECU pulling as much ignition. So think its fair to say the car would be close to 380BHP on Evolves dyno as well.

 

[Gibbo]

I suppose the next step is engine modification? Or are you drawing the line at that?

Impressive results, - have you tried a standard e46 M3 in direct comparison? - I imagine it'll feel relatively dull by comparison, quite a feat in itself!

The line is drawn, all that might get done in the distant future is cams as they are a further good 20 or so horsepower.

Compared to a stock full weight M3 with SMG you'd not think they were the same, infact you'd think I have over 100 horsepower more how quickly I pull away.

The only advantage a regular M3 has over mine at present is grip due to more weight and decent road tyres, probably more tyre though. I'll change the cups at somepoint to something more suitable for the road.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there


So I got my TTFS tune / map kit in the post today, took about 3-4 days to come from US and no VAT/Duty was charged which is great but end of the day it is just a USB cable and some wire/hose and a sensor.

Here is a picture of everything you got (excluding CSl IAT sensor):

I've gone down this route to improve drivability and adaptability and should I ever add cams the CSL map/ECU has far higher resolution maps. TTFS offer to convert old ECU's (MSS54HP) to full CSL spec if you mail them your ECU. I did not need this as I so happened to have a genuine CSL ECU.


So my difficulty has being ok now I have the parts but what on earth do I do with them, well I scoured the internet but not found a concrete easy to follow guide, but again TTFS emailed me a document which goes into some detail, I shall post the important steps as hopefully it will help others who don't want to run Alpha-N or wish to move away from Alpha-N type setups:

Here is screenshots of the guide TTFS emailed me so all thanks goes to them:

With this guide I am now quite happy to tackle this, to summaries.

Cut into brake booster line, place vacuum T (was included part of kit) and position map sensor facing downwards. This is better than OEM design due to the sensor not getting baked by the engine.

Then run the small wire supplied with pin from the white (sensor output) from the map sensor into the blank space on the DME connector, nice and easy to do.

Then remember the colour of the two wires from the DME connector and splice into the relevant ones, shall get a local garage to solder these in for me as not confident about cutting in harness and soldering, I know its easy but will let someone do it who is comfortable with soldering.


The other mission is to find a solution for mounting the CSL IAT sensor as it does not use a nut/thread like the typical sensor included in IAT relocation kits but have seen a few ideas for this such as below from searching the web of what other users have done with air boxes such as the Geoff steel:

So I can either use some modified washers it seems to lock it in place or actually take the sensor down and add a thread to it, a job for a garage for sure as will need some tools.


Once this is done and installed I shall take some pictures and of course I shall comment on how the car feels to drive and how the tune feels. I shall be getting another dyno run done to see how the power curve and power compares to Evolves Alpha-N tune.

The negative side of this is I kind of really wasted my money with the Alpha-N but at the time I was not aware of the map sensor option and the CSL tuning and experience TTFS have.

 

[Gibbo]

Looks a bit of a bodge !

Well its not really as this was has the CSL setup was, differences being CSL had a modified air rail with the map sensor on the rail, but still not particular visible as covered by pollen filter housing. This method has the same effect, but installing into the brake booster line is not only better for sensor longevity but is also completely out of sight, you can't see it or the wires or vacuum hosing at all.

The CSL IAT is more of a pain, as on the genuine BMW air box it pushes in, I could actually modify my air box potentially to have this OEM look, but the location is poor due to heatsoaking issues and I don't particular want to drill into the air box. So I shall find a way of mounting it or as you say bodging it as per the images, but again once installed it is all out of view.

Not like I am building a show car anyway, I just want the cars drivability to improve and any improvement in power curve/peak power is a bonus.

 

[Gibbo]

The CSL setup will have proper fittings, not washers or tapping into Carbon. Its also using scotch locks to hack into the ECU load signal (map sensor). Anything like this is always a compromise on reliability - ignoring the cosmetic bits. I dont agree with the brake booster being a good place for a mao sensor either.


Alpha N was always going to lose driveability.

The map sensor I shall be soldering in, not using scotch links, already said this in my post.

As explained the CSL setup has the map sensor on the air rail with a proper fitting and the IAT sensor has a proper fitting on the air box but it heatsoaks, again already explained.

Onto the brake booster line being good, well think your wrong there, before I even spoke to TTFS I spoke to other people who tune and build race cars and their comment was why you looking at buying a BMW air rail, just t-piece the map sensor into a vacuum line or brake booster, it will work absolutely fine as they'd done it on other cars and achieved 100% of what was required.

When I spoke to TTFS they said to me, we can supply you a modified air rail to give you a very good OEM CSL look that is not bodged but as to reliability and performance it offers no improvement.

So the map sensor in the brake booster is 100% fine.

 

[Gibbo]

A wee bit OT, but on the dynos (which I know nothing about), is it the Wheel BHP that is being measured and then Engine BHP calculated by applying some form of standard "transmission loss", or vice versa?

I ask because in my simple mind the WBHP graph should be closer in shape to the Engine BHP graph throughout the entire rev range? At peak WBHP, on the 2nd dyno for example, WBHP is 262BHP and EBHP is 380BHP.

Unless I'm reading it totally wrong that would be appx. 31% transmission loss which sounds huge with the loss getting bigger after that. Did they account for difference in diff ratio?

My brain can't understand that

Yeah stupid maha dyno, they don't use a form of standard transmission loss, they dyno tries to calculate it accurately and as such changes like tyres, wheel size, pressures, temperatures on the day should have no effect on corrected figure.

When the car ran on a dyno-dynamics which is a wheel horsepower dyno and then uses a form for standard transmission loss it made 308WBHP / 369BHP crank, this was with cats in place.

 

[Gibbo]

Come on over! you can take me out in it

When are the real power mods being made? I demand a supercharger, then you're free to brag all you like

Staying NA all the way, a supercharger would spoil the way it drives, especially on the road. Friend has a very similar M3 to mine, about 1400kg and is running the ESS 575BHP supercharger kit, on the road it can still spin the wheels in 5th gear.

As such he has now turned it into a complete track only car, so full slicks, full cage, 1300kg and on track it is much better as it can put the power down due to slicks/wets being far more stickier and plenty of heat.

Supercharger in an M3, great if your still at full weight on a road car, otherwise wheelspin city.

I will be happy with 380-400BHP NA, it goes OK.

 

[Gibbo]

So what's next?

Get the diff in, cage and trackdays, it is pretty much complete, so drive it, fix it, drive it.

 

[Gibbo]

Hi there

Was not going to add these until I had got the wheel re-trimmed but as it's a 5 minute job why not:

They are Storm SMG paddles with glowing - and + along with neoprene backing! the quality is superb and I love the micro switch/click they have, something any SMG owner should do.

 

[Gibbo]

Like the glow. Matches the dials well.
Is there much work involved in getting them installed? Guessing they replace the whole switch unit but is there much needed to get the power to the lighting?

Or is it just a plug and play job?

Just a screw driver and takes five minutes, very easy.

Am off to anglesey tomorrow to drive the coastal and GP layout of the circuit, cups are back on and forecast is sunny. Can't wait just a shame about 5am start.

 

[Gibbo]

I think there's a bright blue GTR going tomorrow, will be difficult to miss! Met the owner last week and he mentioned he was going this weekend I think.

There is a GTR booked on, hoping it stays dry as cups are down to 2-2.5mm, but always wanted to drive the circuit and at £139 for a full day with less than 30 cars booked and pretty much guaranteed dry weather, had to go for it.

 

[Gibbo]

I think Gibbo's planning a half/rear cage only.

This.

 

[Gibbo]

That makes more sense
Always wondered how guys can use cars with full cages on the public roads.

Not safe to do so unless you wear a helmet which you'd loom stupid, lol.

 

[Gibbo]

I think there's a bright blue GTR going tomorrow, will be difficult to miss! Met the owner last week and he mentioned he was going this weekend I think.

He was there, very nice car, had a little play, let him past and did a good job at keeping up but I will say Anglesey seems far better suited to lighter stuff sub 1000kg I'd say as the M3 was not as strong as usual but at the same time I was not very confident at all, I found the track a bit daunting especially church corner.

The day was fantastic, very quiet, sunny all day and breath taking views but it's not a track I will re-visit I don't think.

Problems I previously had such as over heating seem cured, water temp never moved beyond half way and oil temperature remained under 120c even after longer sessions.

Issues I think my diff has had it or a bush/mount is gone as sometimes on up changes I got vibrations in S6 so had to use S5 and the diff was very clunky on return drive, something it seems to have being doing more. But it's planned to be fully rebuilt with new final ratio next month.

Other one, cups sucked they simply just seem to pick up everything, maybe it was because they were on their markers, but they are truly shot now, drive home was not pleasant from vibrations from pickup on rear tyres and frontend felt floaty and no grip as tyres have gone like plastic, but again I knew they only had one more day in them, but at the end of their life they seem poor, maybe due to amount of heat cycles or something. Anyway F1AS2's ordered.

Did have tuition but we cut it short as on right handers there was dreadful knocking, the instructor noted it was probably pick up but did say it's odd to be that noticable so said it was upto me, I went into pits and spent the next hour removing huge lumps of rubber from the tyres, but car was fine afterwards just not much grip anywhere.

So need to sort slicks for spare set of wheels also going to refresh the steering upper and lower column joints as well to have a more planted front end as touch of play in it and parts are like £100 and relatively easy to fit.

A great day, lots of very fast stuff there, my mates Caterham and Honda Civic were mentally quick, there was a Lambo Hurricane there which was mind blowing and the XTR Westfield just blew everything away, normally I can keep up with and pass caterhams at Donnington but at Anglesey it was completely hopeless and not even close.


So before next track day:-
Get new final ration and LSD rebuilt as planned with new bushes
Slicks on spare wheels
Upper and lower steering column knuckles
Get the map sensor and new tune in as currently doing.

 

[Gibbo]

When did you last recalibrate the clutch biting point?

Diff "clunk" is common as you'll know but I found resetting the biting point (note: not the SMG adaption) after after/before every track session helped transmission smoothness, particularly after I had my clutch and flywheel replaced. It only took about 10 mins to perform the routine.

Worth doing anyway and hopefully the diff change sorts out any issues.

When I fitted the clutch I ran the INPA three stage, which I think stage 1 and 2 were bleeding system and stage 3 teaching itself.

Are you talking about something different and if so can you remember how you did it please?

 

[Gibbo]

Cheers will re-run just the stage 3 then, thanks for that, makes perfect sense though, but it could have just being caused by diff or worn mount of knackered tyres.

Also my worries about getting the CSL IAT sensor to fit and it being bodged were not an issue, the hole is marginally to small which means it clips in nicely and is very snug, I've added glue to ensure it stays there.

Original IAT relocation kit. You can see it's held in with a nut

CSL version nicely clicks in tight after making the hole bigger, then secured with glue

So that was a load of worrying over nothing.

 

[Gibbo]

Next step done:

Teed the map sensor in the brake boost vacuum hose, this hose runs from the back of the air rail to the brake booster, the map sensor gets teed into here and is actually common practice on many cars. Then the sensor itself well it locks into position nicely on top of the metal brake lines running from the DSC module and is again approved by the tuners.

It looks very messy right now as I emailed these photos to TTFS to see if they would confirm they are happy and they replied saying absolutely perfect, so later I shall cut down the cable ties and shorten the wiring and push it through the gromets directly into the ECU box for a neater install.

However none of this can actually be seen in the engine bay as it is covered by covers being right at back of engine, so not noticeable:

Couple of photos:

A friend has offered to solder/splice the two wires into power and ground for me, signal wire comes with a pin on the end as it goes directly into the ECU block as pin 18 where it goes is currently empty.

Hope to have this done tomorrow and then I shall swap the ECU over, read the ECU data and email it to get the EWS deleted and the tune applied. Hopefully by weekend I shall be up and running on the map sensor.

Will let you guys know how it runs, good or bad and take a new pic of the install tidied up, but as I say this is all out of view anyway, so it looks like nothing has being done.

 

[Gibbo]

Was a while ago now but stage/option 3 is the biting point calibration iirc. Takes only 2 or 3 mins from starting the process. This was from an old post on Cutters when we were looking into various causes of "juddering":

Ran it seems to have improved, but I think my judder was wheel hop after doing som research on cup tyres.


"A "Heat Cycle" is when a tire heats up to operating temperature, then cools down to ambiant temperature. The term mainly applied to track driving as road driving seldom gets the tires up to optimal temperature. These "optimal tempertures" make the tire very sticky and soft, and really help keep the car planted against lateral forces.

I attend Driver's Education track events under which I will have six 25 minute sessions on the track. Each of these sessions would provide a complete "heat cycle" as the tires would go back to ambiant temperature between sessions. Michelin Pilot Sport Cups tend to get "hard" after about 24 heat cycles. This means that they do not soften up once the tires get to optimal temperature on the track, and the tire "stickiness" goes down hill fast. Let's just say sliding around the track becomes the norm... "


My tyres are absolute rock hard and on the day they never got sticky or tacky like normal and were rock hard even when warm.

But in hindsight I never knew about heat cycles and was just going of tread depth, they are now around 1mm but the above explains the numbness I felt and lack of feedback/grip as I've done well over 24 heat cycles on them, probably nearly double infact.

Oh well you live and learn!

 

[Gibbo]

Dude, is that sensor really cable tied to your brake pipes? Right near the modulator aswell that will flutter around in use.

Will soon bite into the pipe and let them rust!

Can't really think of anywhere else to mount it as it needs to face down. Supposed I could use thick rubber adhesive pad so not cable tied to it. Would that do?

If not suppose other option is to make a bracket it for which bolts to rear bulkhead that it can sit on?


P.S. If it did not need to face down then I could just bolt it to bulkhead directly or even use double sided take and put it by itself. Is orientation really important as it baffles me why orientation of it can effect it any way.