Soldato
Rubbish
"Just stop oil"
- Thread starter Diddums
- Start date
Rubbish
Associate
It's all very well saying: "you don't have to buy fossil fuels or use materials derived from them", but they are involved in almost everything in our society.
This is not all down to individuals. The fossil fuel industry invented the "carbon footprint" concept in order to shift the blame for CO2 emissions from them to us. If you live in a country where fossil fuels are used in some way by virtually everyone and oil derived materials are used to make almost everything then you simply cannot avoid using them.
We are all stuck with this crisis until much of the basic structure of the global economy is changed. It's the Banks who finance new exploration for fossil fuels and governments who give the fossil fuel industry tax breaks and grants (with tax-payer/borrowed money) who are really supporting this ongoing problem.
Even if you are a multi-millionaire you cannot just set up a green power generation system in the UK to satisfy all the energy needs of yourself and your family. You would never get planning permission to put up onshore wind turbines on your land or to put up a large enough solar panel array for your needs (not just panels flush to building roofs). The system therefore actively prevents you as an individual from changing your lifestyle to eliminate your own fossil fuel usage.
Soldato
most definitely the latter. They are also expecting completely unrealistic outcomes with no viable alternatives.
Soldato
What is unrealistic about asking the government to stop giving out licenses for oil exploration that won’t produce oil for 10+ years by which point if we are to hit net zero our pile usage would need to have massively fallen? There is already enough licensed exploration to meet our needs if we are going to hit net zero. The name is ‘just stop oil’ but I think you mayb taking it too literally!
What would be the point in stopping it? We're going to use oil regardless, why not maintain domestic supply?
Soldato
I agree to a certain extent but we are not licensing oil for the level of use we will need in future we are licensing oil for a level of extraction incompatible with our stated aim on being carbon neutral and the way the global market works doesn’t support a domestic supply argument much like gas as we have found out this last winter! Either way it doesn’t change the fact that just stop oils desire to stop the licensing of new oil exploration is realistic and there are viable alternatives.
Associate
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jul 2004
- Posts
- 7,105
Amazing.
The domestic supply stops money flowing out of our economy. If we become a net exporter, it brings money into our economy from elsewhere.
For every £ on fossil fuels we import, all the benefits go to enriching Norway, the Middle East and the USA with the only benefit to our society is that we don’t freeze to death.
Stopping domestic fossil fuel production when you are still a net importer (a significant net importer at that) is literally cutting off your nose to spite your face.
I’m all for winding down fossil fuel use, but until we no longer need it, we should be producing as much of it as possible to support our own economy.
Only oil that is going to get used is extracted from the ground. It doesn’t matter if it’s going to be produced here or in Saudi Arabia, the same amount is still going to get burnt. If the use of oil goes down, production goes down to match to keep the price up.
Ultimately this is why the just stop oil message and the new labor policy on it is utterly bone headed and like shooting yourself in the foot for no reason.
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Man of Honour
Did somebody hijack your account, that's one of the most stupid things I've read here?
You mustn't have seen what they get up to and how they impact many peoples lives.
Soldato
Luckily I don't live in London or where ever they happen to be.
But I know one thing if I came across them I wouldn't make myself a criminal by assaulting them or driving into them like what you see in the media. The right wing media has got everyone rallied up into thinking this is acceptable and fair game.
Soldato
Dodgy-looking email in sig too.
Man of Honour
No they haven't, they have done it to themselves.
If you need to be somewhere at a certain time and you find out the reason you can't get there is because people are sitting in the road stopping you, some people will lose their **** over it.
There are many instances of major problems they have caused for people with the worst being a woman who had a stroke and because they took too long getting her to the hospital she didn't get any better.
People have missed out on jobs and very important hospital appointments, it seems you don't live in the real world.
Man of Honour
Hmm where I've seen these Protestors that would mean trying to get over a Central reservation.
Vehicles haven't been able to turn round.
Here's a few pictures to show how hard it would be - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j...hbIPhsKysAo&authuser=0&bih=900&biw=1438&hl=en
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I don't see why it is incompatible and also what you're point is re: global markets, you've kinda made reference to/gestured towards "global markets" as a partial argument but then not actually said anything about them.
Sure, it's realistic to sop new exploration and the viable alternative is to simply import more oil in the future ergo it seems both pointless and makes us more dependent on others.
Rishi's new wells, meanwhile Keirhumpty-dumpty can't decide if he's in or out.
what's the deal with our oil mostly being exported - is that just lack of refining capability to create our own transportation petrol/diesel, ok - we'll build sone of them too.
for cost of LNG think he misrepresented its carbon cost of LNG - its like you waste 1/3 of the energy.
what's the deal with our oil mostly being exported - is that just lack of refining capability to create our own transportation petrol/diesel, ok - we'll build sone of them too.
for cost of LNG think he misrepresented its carbon cost of LNG - its like you waste 1/3 of the energy.
Soldato
- Joined
- 16 Aug 2009
- Posts
- 7,947
If we're one of the largest by population importers of fossil fuels how about we actually do something to cut down on our usage like investment in renewables or EV instead? Oh right its politically driven Oil is a big employer in scotland and the SNP have committed to reduction in oil exploration to meet climate targets and how better to boost votes in the area? Or insulation but no, the Tory govt removed all those incentives long ago so lets just fritter money away on short term vote grabbing winter fuel payments instead which does absolutely bugger all to address the root cause of the problem. Oh and onshore wind can actually be seen from the windows of Tory shire MP's unlike oil platforms far, far out to sea. Well thats all fine and dandy, then. Burn that oil baby, burn! While the rest of the world goes up in flames, literally. Yes I am angry.
At no point have I suggested we need to cut our consumption, quite the opposite in fact, I have clearly advocated for the need to cut consumption and actually taken significant steps myself to do so.
There is zero reason as to why we can’t do both at the same time.
There is zero reason as to why we can’t do both at the same time.