"Just stop oil"

So you dont want free press then?

Just what do people want this country to become? North Korea?
Sometimes the 'free press' can actually cause massive problems due to the way it operates... For example the way they report these disruptive protests gives a massive incentive to groups that want airtime to do stuff like this. Another example would be how reporting in the daily mail etc that has been incredibly misleading in a whole range of topics, and contributed to things like Brexit.

There are IPSO guidelines which seem to be generally followed around things like suicide for example, due to the known risk irresponsible reporting creates for readers. Or TV cameras not focusing on pitch invaders at football games because it would only incentivise more people to do it, and detracts from the main purpose of the reporting.

Maybe some rules about limiting the amount of detail and airtime given might help the situation... If the story was 'M25 shut due to environmental group' rather than 'Just stop oil members have tied themselves to gantries over the road, here's a 2 minute video recorded by one of them, after which we' ll be interviewing one of their representatives', then there would be much less incentive for them to cause disruption or vandalise art galleries etc.

A different problem with the 'free press' is how they only report minimally on other protests / demonstrations unless they are truly massive. If they reported peaceful protests of a similar size in the same detail they report on disruptive protests there might be less of an issue...
 
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Am I surprised at the 'middle white older men' response to just stop oil here on OCUK forum ? No of course not, many here calling for very harsh action against the protestors, while having a pop at them.

Now, before you all get your heckles up & have a crack at me for pointing out the rightiness some on this forum regularly display........

I am actually not going to reply as 'left wing' as some often accuse me of.

People very easily try and simplify things, simply using one of the protesters (in the linked clip) unwillingness to have a sensible convo on the entire cause makes her msg easy to dismiss (TBF she realllllyy isn't helping herself by talking over the presenter) - but also they have been having sensible convos for years and got no where, so you can understand their/her urgency.

You really need to break down this issue into the scientific facts of the situation vs the need for humans to get around & civil freedoms.

1) I am a person (me, personally), who absolutely cannot in any way use public transport, my life would be impossible & I could not work, it never has been and never will be a possibility for me - I absolutely cannot use "socialist" transport systems (i.e. buses & trains!! lol) - I HAVE TO have my own transportation system.

2) Will their msg that the modern world burning oil, operating under capitalism cause the collapse of the entire planet with only the mega rich/prepaired surviving? - Yes also absolutely 100% true, they are not wrong, humanity has no future with the way we all operate globally right now, something has to change, but most people don't realise this and/or refuse to believe it and dismiss it.

So, I'm a person that needs a car/van, but I also know doing so adds to the very real chance of global collapse, do I go right wing and say 'my small contribution wont make a massive difference to the whole issue, so I will do what I damn well like', or do I continue to live hypocritically aware I need a vehicle?

The real answer for me, and the sensible one is, understanding 99% of individuals (i.e. not millionaires/billionaires) acting as individuals can't solve this - we are all pressured economically into having to have a fuel powered car, I cannot afford expensive electric cars, I cannot sit at home and not work, I have to eat - im trapped into having to travel to survive, knowing doing so adds to pollution.

So the only answer is, forcing the global elite to act on it - the ultra rich.

Quite simply tax them, properly, its not cruel to them, they will still be rich beyond most peoples wildest dreams, it will raise billions to convert all our transportation systems to electric, and then use renewables to power it all - again the infrastructure paid for by them / governments.

Of course many will point out 'this isn't feasible economically' - it is, maths wise, but many poor people often weirdly defend the ultra rich, what you really mean to say is, the ultra rich wont like having their wealth slashed in half to pay for humanities conversion to electric vehicles - tough, they will still be much better off than many.

So really, we need to trade in our vehicles for electric conversion, or new vehicles, funded in a way to make it plausible for us all to afford, undoubtably road tax would go up to thousands of £ per year to rake in the money that used to be on fuel (sad but likely)

1) Convert all cars/vans/lorries (where possible) to electric, a global initiative not seen since the moon landings to get it done
2) For the time being we'll need fuel still to power air, boats etc, so you can't just stop using oil overnight
3) Hold the ultra rich to account, enough is enough, they have enough, its time to use the monetary power for good.

Of course I couldn't write this without pointing out that simply stop eating meat would drop global immersions 10-12 fold more than doing all of the above plan............seems much easier to have a plant burger than upheave global transport systems, but as I said, most people don't like to entertain scientific fact, but that's a convo for another day ;)

You had me mostly agreeing with you right up until the last part...

If you like and prefer people to "entertain scientific fact" as you put it, then perhaps you would like to entertain the fact that the we simply do not have enough arable land to even attempt to replace meat with plant burgers.
You could even entertain the fact that the vast majority of land that is used for grazing is entirely unsuitable for crops - which is the very reason why it's being used as grazing land in the first place.

Secondly, you don't actually say what emissions. Just "emissions" doesn't really cut it, this is not the 1980s, we know a great deal more about how things work than before. Are we talking CO2 here? Methane? They have vastly different levels of effect, even though they are both a contributing factor to global warming.
 
So the only answer is, forcing the global elite to act on it - the ultra rich.

Quite simply tax them, properly, its not cruel to them, they will still be rich beyond most peoples wildest dreams, it will raise billions to convert all our transportation systems to electric, and then use renewables to power it all - again the infrastructure paid for by them / governments.
Unfortunately, the more times you hear this 'simple solution' you realise that this is impossible. Tax the ultra rich - how? Successive Governments have already pressured HMRC to go after them, but they all keep their money in tax havens that our country has no authority over. Tax those that are here harder, and you'll just have more of them move abroad.

We're already replacing cars with EVs at an ever increasing rate, and ICE sales will be banned entirely in just over 7 years.

What we really need in the UK is an abundance of cheap, clean energy. That would lead to increased productivity and boost sales of EVs. Unfortunately, it seems like we've been holding off, waiting for fusion or some alternative to actually become viable - but the reality is we need to be building as much as we can with the technology we have available to us now.

The only way to stop oil, is to get our energy from other means.
 
If you like and prefer people to "entertain scientific fact" as you put it, then perhaps you would like to entertain the fact that the we simply do not have enough arable land to even attempt to replace meat with plant burgers.
You could even entertain the fact that the vast majority of land that is used for grazing is entirely unsuitable for crops - which is the very reason why it's being used as grazing land in the first place.

Ok it's greenpeace so probably biased, but 63% arable land is dedicated to feeding farm animals https://www.greenpeace.org/reportything
 
Ok it's greenpeace so probably biased, but 63% arable land is dedicated to feeding farm animals https://www.greenpeace.org/reportything
That’s not out of step with that I have seen from elsewhere.

Much of it from beef production, particularly in the states. If I remember correctly, if all of America stopped eating beef and switched to chicken, it would cut the land use for meat production by some obscene %.
 
That’s not out of step with that I have seen from elsewhere.

Much of it from beef production, particularly in the states. If I remember correctly, if all of America stopped eating beef and switched to chicken, it would cut the land use for meat production by some obscene %.

Surely that has been twisted for agenda because of a lot of arable land is left for animals after it has been harvested. At least in this country.
 
Surely that has been twisted for agenda because of a lot of arable land is left for animals after it has been harvested. At least in this country.
It really isn’t. Where do you think all the food for the animals comes from?

It’s grown in fields in for form of a cereal crop (corn, grains, oats etc.) which is then fed to the animals. Even in the U.K., grazing fields makes up only a proportion of the food they eat, it’s zero through the winter as the grass isn’t growing. This year, due to the drought, they are cracking open the winter food stocks in July.

I think for chicken it’s something like 4:1 of food in to food out and beef it’s more like 8:1. That means you could feed 8 people a vegetarian diet or 1 person a beef diet using the same amount of land.
 
So you dont want free press then?

Just what do people want this country to become? North Korea?
I exactly want this country to be like North Korea you have most definitely accurately captured my inner intentions. Bravo you.

In no way did I want a targeted approach that undercut an egotistical performance art as politics approach to protesting by deliberately not rewarding an incredibly disruptive type of action.
 
All very well the UK converting all our vehicles to electricity at a massive cost. Look at the USA, China, all the second and third world vehicles, cars trucks etc. which are massively more polluting that the UK has ever been. We do have emission limits on vehicles checked annually which is more than many other places.

Propose all this on a global or mutinational scale, I might agree but the UK alone, peanuts.
 
I wonder how many people jumping on the "Just stop oil" bandwagon are using it as a vehicle (no pun intended) to channel their anger and sadness of living in a modern UK. A lot of people are very down in terms of happiness due to such a hard fall in disposable income. I believe "Just stop oil" is just the latest popular bandwagon to join in with, where people can act out their hatred, fear and aggression by making other people's lives a misery with these protests.
 
I wonder how many people jumping on the "Just stop oil" bandwagon are using it as a vehicle (no pun intended) to channel their anger and sadness of living in a modern UK. A lot of people are very down in terms of happiness due to such a hard fall in disposable income. I believe "Just stop oil" is just the latest popular bandwagon to join in with, where people can act out their hatred, fear and aggression by making other people's lives a misery with these protests.
All our lives will be a much greater misery if we don't take the required action and we carry on as we are. We have already left it very late, are people really surprised?

Just Stop Oil are trying to warn us and get us to act but instead of standing with them we vilify them. It makes me sick because most people have no conception of how bad things will be if we fail.
 
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There is a lot of anarchy about. I believe that a lot of it is underemployed people having a pop at government particularly from the left spectrum. Same with covid vaccines etc., etc.
 
All very well the UK converting all our vehicles to electricity at a massive cost. Look at the USA, China, all the second and third world vehicles, cars trucks etc. which are massively more polluting that the UK has ever been. We do have emission limits on vehicles checked annually which is more than many other places.

Propose all this on a global or mutinational scale, I might agree but the UK alone, peanuts.

You can take the moral high ground when we stop exporting all our polluting heavy industry to China. You simply can’t export your emissions and then point the finger.

They actually do more on zero emissions than most of Europe. Vast amounts of renewables are being installed each year alongside nuclear etc. sure they also burn a lot of coal but not for long.

It’s also worth noting that their emissions per capita (person) is actually lower than ours and once you factor in all the stuff we import because the emissions are counted elsewhere, it would be significantly lower.

A good example is comparing how many electric buses they have in Shenzen (one city) and then how many there in the whole of Europe.

Spoiler alert, they have 18,000 in one city (and not a single diesel bus), the whole of Europe has about 14,000.

It’s actually very difficult to buy a new ICE car/bike in china, the costs are crazy compared to electric.
 
All very well the UK converting all our vehicles to electricity at a massive cost. Look at the USA, China, all the second and third world vehicles, cars trucks etc. which are massively more polluting that the UK has ever been. We do have emission limits on vehicles checked annually which is more than many other places.

Propose all this on a global or mutinational scale, I might agree but the UK alone, peanuts.

This is the main issue I think we all have with it. It's very naive to push "Just stop oil" and protest about it when it is a global issue of which we as a country contribute much less to. The infrastructure is not there. To truly tackle the issue it needs a long term global plan. The problem with this is that we as humans are flawed in terms of alignment to making our planet last because we only live for X years. People are selfish and want to live their lives whilst they can, with maximum enjoyment. Not saying people don't care, but realistically, there is only so much impact we can have. It's hard to bring countries together globally to tackle this because we are focused so much on money. Tackling this problem costs money as we are so far down the road now with the way the world works, and we don't want to be seen to be going backwards in terms of freedoms and the way we live our lives.
 
There is a lot of anarchy about. I believe that a lot of it is underemployed people having a pop at government particularly from the left spectrum. Same with covid vaccines etc., etc.
There just seems to be a lot of "chicken little" social politics going around since the start of lockdown. lots of people with clear mental health issues latching onto causes they know little about to try to give meaning to their lives.
 
Ok it's greenpeace so probably biased, but 63% arable land is dedicated to feeding farm animals https://www.greenpeace.org/reportything
probably true considering the amount of Rapeseed I see growing around here, anecdotal but still...

Surely they grow what the demand asks for though, if there was higher demand for potatoes, wheat, barley or whatever then they would grow it.

they clearly want to change people's eating habits but by force because people are happy to eat meat, I'm guessing certain people would be totally happy if meat was out of the price range of 90% of the population and something only for the elites whilst the rest eat insects
 
There just seems to be a lot of "chicken little" social politics going around since the start of lockdown. lots of people with clear mental health issues latching onto causes they know little about to try to give meaning to their lives.

It's a pre-Covid thing, ahem, Donald Trump
 
This is the main issue I think we all have with it. It's very naive to push "Just stop oil" and protest about it when it is a global issue of which we as a country contribute much less to. The infrastructure is not there. To truly tackle the issue it needs a long term global plan. The problem with this is that we as humans are flawed in terms of alignment to making our planet last because we only live for X years. People are selfish and want to live their lives whilst they can, with maximum enjoyment. Not saying people don't care, but realistically, there is only so much impact we can have. It's hard to bring countries together globally to tackle this because we are focused so much on money. Tackling this problem costs money as we are so far down the road now with the way the world works, and we don't want to be seen to be going backwards in terms of freedoms and the way we live our lives.
Not tackling it costs much more, I'm sorry but this is very defeatist. Only 0.05% of rich countries' GDP invested directly would be enough to make sure we limit ourselves to a maximum of 1.5C of global warming and avert catastrophe:


Also, you can't discount the historical emissions that caused the crisis of which the UK was a primary contributor.
 
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