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Wrong... peoples personality and decision making can be changed in the matter minuets with drugs. Legal and Illegal so computers could not predict an outcome. Simple.
Kids who misbehave...
- Thread starter wire-screw
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Man of Honour
You kind of answered your own question really. What child do you know has any real respect, self awareness or comprehension? This is why they are "Children" and it’s something they develop as they become adults. This is called growing up. It's amazing how many people see kids through the eyes of an adult, then critical of them for not being children.
I'm not a child psychologist by any means, but I do believe that a number of different things have a negative effect child behaviour.. poor “practical” parenting, lack of quality attention, lack of interaction, communication and so on. Consistency with children is as equally important.
A few examples;
My sisters boy (6) hits out, punches and bites and she asks me why. On holiday, I noticed that neither she nor her husband gave him any quality attention. Both are too wrapped up in their own lives and can’t wait to palm him off with someone or with something. The iPad has become a sinister baby sitter. I spent some time with him this weekend, playing and interacting. He was fine.. Soon as he was back home.. punch.
Another example is at home. My wife's a childminder. One of the parents has trouble getting his son out of the car. She entices him out with sweats saying "here boy". What is a he a dog? Who’s the adult here? She actually asked me for help one morning. I distracted him by “Talking” to him then told him. She then asked how I did it? Potentially this child is going to walk all over his parents if they continue this way. They’ll look back and wonder why and blame the child.
We are certainly not benchmarks in parenting but to say that some parent don’t have a clue is an understatement
Man of Honour
You kind of answered your own question really. What child do you know has any real respect, self awareness or comprehension? This is why they are "Children" and it’s something they develop as they become adults. This is called growing up. It's amazing how many people see kids through the eyes of an adult, then critical of them for not being children.
I'm not a child psychologist by any means, but I do believe that a number of different things have a negative effect child behaviour.. poor “practical” parenting, lack of quality attention, lack of interaction, communication and so on. Consistency with children is as equally important.
A few examples;
My sisters boy (6) hits out, punches and bites and she asks me why. On holiday, I noticed that neither she nor her husband gave him any quality attention. Both are too wrapped up in their own lives and can’t wait to palm him off with someone or with something. The iPad has become a sinister baby sitter. I spent some time with him this weekend, playing and interacting. He was fine.. Soon as he was back home.. punch.
Another example is at home. My wife's a childminder. One of the parents has trouble getting his son out of the car. She entices him out with sweats saying "here boy". What is a he a dog? Who’s the adult here? She actually asked me for help one morning. I distracted him by “Talking” to him then told him. She then asked how I did it? Potentially this child is going to walk all over his parents if they continue this way. They’ll look back and wonder why and blame the child.
We are certainly not benchmarks in parenting but to say that some parent don’t have a clue is an understatement
Associate
A lot of people can't even look after themselves in a responsible manner, now give them a baby and it is no wonder we have to deal with people/children that lack respect or awareness.
No point in addressing other behaviour niggles if the biggest issues stem off issues closest to home.
No point in addressing other behaviour niggles if the biggest issues stem off issues closest to home.
I was a right so and so at secondary school, I was bullied by everyone I knew because my parents were disciplinarians and had instilled "you are not to fight ever" in me so I didn't fight back - I used to take it out on the teachers, made their lives hell. This was at a £15k a year public school so no chance of being expelled for it.
I still got my 7 GCSE's though - and then 3 A levels - and then a degree albeit a 2:1 in Media Production - how much of it do I use in my job? A bit of Maths and a bit of English.
Depending what you want to do in life, education is not that necessary.
I still got my 7 GCSE's though - and then 3 A levels - and then a degree albeit a 2:1 in Media Production - how much of it do I use in my job? A bit of Maths and a bit of English.
Depending what you want to do in life, education is not that necessary.
Education is extremely necessary, what isn't particularly necessary is formal education.
If I want to learn something, I educate myself on it.
Associate
Human behaviour cannot be predicted with certainty even given computers vastly more powerful than those available today. Machiavelli called this element of behavioural uncertainty 'fortuna'. You also ascribe too much importance to DNA in thought processes, the way we think is as much a social product as a biological one.
Man of Honour
Either I do or you have misinterpreted their position. I'm guessing the latter.
If you don't have free will, you don't have a functioning mind. You have a partial simulation of a functioning mind. It's no more an actual mind than GTA5 is an actual city. Like GTA5, it's just a computer processing inputs in accordance with predefined instructions. Actually, no, that's a bad example. GTA5 is closer to a real mind than your idea is because GTA5 can have some randomness in it.
It's a contradiction, as I have already explained, because you're stating that everything, absolutely everything, is a product solely of rigidly defined and unvariable rules. You are, therefore, saying that absolutely everything without exception is predetermined in every way to every degree, without the slightest possibility of any variance from the predetermined result. Predetermined by the starting conditions of the beginning of the universe (if it had a beginning) and by the rules. You then say that this universe in which everything is absolutely predetermined is not predetermined.
Absolutely wrong.
For a start and ill repeat a functioning brain does not need free will.
What you're talking about is free will and no, no one knows if we do have free will, theres isn't evidence for it. What we do know is it goes against are current understanding. Some think we do, some think we don't. Those who think we do have purposed things like "free will particles" to try and explain it.
So no you aren't better than world leading scientists, you're just assuming you know more than them and that free will 100% exists with zero to back it up. Plenty purpose free will is nothing more than an evolutionary advantage and an illusion. Theres even the Benjamin Libet experiments, that look at the timings of movement, it found that both in deciding to move or cancel that move, both actions started in the subconciuse brain, with the higher brain catching up after a few 10ths of a second. Suggesting that its the subconciuse deciding and your higher brain rationalising. Many of which have said this supports the illusion theory, while others say its far to narrow just looking at arm movement. While libet purposed a not will theory, that all impulses start subconcise and you have a split second to decide to stop it, but to not start anything.
But the fact is you are assuming that free will has been proven and that is required for a working mind. Where this just is not the case at all, your starting assumption is just wrong. We just don't know, free will has neither been proven or proven wrong.
As for the second part, if you look at what i was quoting. Someone was suggesting that if its pre determined that means a deity and as he's an atheists he doesn't believe that. I was pointing out that that isn't the only option in determinism, you don't need a deity to pre determine everything. Things can sim ply be known by knowing the starting state and the laws. So no its not a contradiction, if you read what its replied to, plenty of people think pre determined means that its decided by something. As seen in this and the other thread.
Its not that simple at all, in determinism if you could model it (which you cant as you need something with as much information that the entire universe). Then you would know said person would take such drugs and the affects such drugs would make, so its a far from simple field and is why we've had pretty much zero advancement in the field.
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Soldato
When I was growing up if I was playing up I used to get a crack round the head or actually punished for misbehaving.
These days it doesn't happen so kids just go about thinking their King 10 ******** and no one can do anything to them.
These days it doesn't happen so kids just go about thinking their King 10 ******** and no one can do anything to them.
It would be nice if theres some percentage to go by, because even when growing up there was plenty of naughty kids with parents who didn't discipline. As kids perhaps we just didn't see the bigger picture and thus just think theres more now.
Are trouble kids now actually a large part of society than 20 years ago.
Evolutionary psychology might be an interesting field for the op to research as it covers the above and op.
Associate
This. I work in education and with the targets management try to inflict there can be no space for personal accountability.
The system has and will continue to reward them academically even without personal accountability. I can therefore understand why they are either ignorant of the concept and/or think it's not important and its just something their "out of touch" teachers are trying to inflict on them (i.e. in their experience they don't need it)
e.g. one student failed this year. had 3 exams failed with one pending. This then went through our panel for deferment of studies (paperwork, admin, why did I fail, etc?). Got his "free tuition / sitting of the 3 exams outstanding" next year. One week later I got an email from the student along the lines of "i cant turn up for my pending exam tomorrow, had to do something at work, probably for the best as i have done no work in preparation"!!!!!
Guess the age of the student above........................
40+
This goes beyond simply the "youth", but it is getting worse. a Statistic i have just made up on the spot from my experiences in education:
Adults with no personal responsibility 10-20%
Youths with no personal responsibility 80-90%
The problem and term for this is "inclusive learning". The official definition is full of education speak, but in effect it means "everyone will succeed, irrespective of attitude or capability"
This does not apply to all courses/curriculum, but management are always trying to "maximze inclusivity" as this meets targets and gets higher funding. You see the proud adverts from colleges, saying 100% success rates,etc ... think about it!
I blame Pink Floyd
"We don't need no education, leave them kids alone. No dark sarcasm in the classroom (from the teachers)..." needs a 2013 rewrite:
"We do need education, leave them teachers alone. No dark sarcasm in the classroom (from the students and management)..."
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Soldato
Then you might want to actually study it because nothing you said in your post makes any sense.
If you actually did some research you would know it is not your own theory, it is a mishmash of several others which have been around for centuries.
You can't just "ponder" some crap and call it a philosophical theory, that isn't how it works.
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Soldato
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Man of Honour
Complete tosh. I work in a school, and I've seen first hand that a child can be as good as gold in one class, then an absolute nightmare in another. I've seen them be little angels for a teacher one week, then a little devil the next. They are acting this way because they choose to.
Soldato
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Nice post OP.
It's good to see some teenagers have a brain and think about life now and then, instead of just 'all being idiots'.
Keep thinking about life and enjoy it
Ignore those who reply to you with 'uggh rubbish load of tosh etc' .......... it seems this is a forum to shoot down quickly and not recognise not necessarily what was posted but the fact in this case that someone younger was at least having a good old think.
It's good to see some teenagers have a brain and think about life now and then, instead of just 'all being idiots'.
Keep thinking about life and enjoy it
Ignore those who reply to you with 'uggh rubbish load of tosh etc' .......... it seems this is a forum to shoot down quickly and not recognise not necessarily what was posted but the fact in this case that someone younger was at least having a good old think.If anyone is interested, there's a clip on youtube of Sam Harris reading from one of his books on the illusion of free will which expands on the idea and makes some very good points.
(Tried to embed it but can't tell if it worked while at work.)