Kids who misbehave...

[V4NT0M]

Why is anyone anything? We are all products of our environment and physical conditions.

How can you say that you have made the right decisions and someone else has made the wrong ones, if you had their physical body and grew up in their environment you would have made exactly the same decisions as they did. How could you have made any other?

Every decision you make is based on everything you have already experienced. Free will in a way is a complete illusion, we are all merely decision engines and much like a computer program bound completely by the way we have been programmed.

 

[Monkeynut]

I didn't misbehave at school, and that's the reason I was always found in the bin, head-first.

 

[jsmoke]

Nature Vs. Nurture arguement, hard to seperate the two at times. Lack of discipline nowadays though.

 

[wildman]

So what do you think and I'm interested in how this comes across to you?

I think you are Kwerk in disguise, possibly with some undercurrents of DVDBunny......................

 

[sports_brah]

However, the reason I misbehaved at school was because:

1. The school curriculum was ridiculously easy, I got 'good' grades without being attentive and perfect
2. It was a very very low ranking school, everyone was misbehaving
3. It was fun

So what I learnt was its ok to muck about and have a good time, as long you still get the job done.

This exactly. Personally I recognised from a really young age that disrupting the class was stupid and unfair on everyone so I just kept quiet. My ability in school meant that I could get away with the extreme minimum of work (detrimental in the long term), thanks in part to my intelligence, but also due to the fact that people ****ed around and thus the teachers spent more time trying to reform little johnny, rather than concentrate on the people who actually wanted to work, and who would have responded to discipline.

The turning point for me was when in an attempt to get the swines to pipe down, they organised a home trip to Jamaica. (the people back in jamaica ironically enough were shocked by the behaviour of the kids that went haha) I mean seriously, wtf.

Oh, they then added extra classes after schools for the blacks (no lie), because they "recognised that there cultural upbringing meant they found it hard to focus in class". Thus they messed around all day, and got extra classes anyway.

Morale: do some work, don't kick up a fuss: go nowhere.

And I wonder why I've got a deep dislike and contempt for the schooling system....

edit: reading back over what I said, made it appear it was just the blacks that were at fault. This isn't true, white people had their own problems, less so with the asians. The vast majority were black though, and the points above were the most obvious.

 

[AJK]

Oh, they then added extra classes after schools for the blacks (no lie), because they "recognised that there cultural upbringing meant they found it hard to focus in class"...

Did you go to school in 1960's America?

 

[wildman]

Did you go to school in 1960's America?

 

[TFleming]

You assume we're the only variable in the equation of occurances. We are of course, not.

 

[Gilly]

You dont need a deity for it to be predicatble.
Its just all energy follows physical laws, so if you could model it you could predict everything. Its not realy predetermined as such. Its junt everything follows set laws.

Does it? Or is that just how we understand it?

 

[wire-screw]

Some people get it and some don't - I think due to their lack of sight.

Originally Posted by Judgeneo View Post
However, the reason I misbehaved at school was because:

1. The school curriculum was ridiculously easy, I got 'good' grades without being attentive and perfect
2. It was a very very low ranking school, everyone was misbehaving
3. It was fun

So what I learnt was its ok to muck about and have a good time, as long you still get the job done.

Why did you find it easy and why did you think you could misbehave because the others were? You can't stop at one generation of answers.

BTW, I've never even seen weed in real life I think. I'll love to see what you do with that!

 

[Angilion]

The evidence isn't lacking at all, theres just as much evidence for both sides, pretty much none.

There are countless billions of examples of what appears to be people having functioning minds. That isn't "pretty much none" in terms of evidence. It's not completely compelling evidence because it's possible that it's all an illusion, but it's a great deal more evidence than "pretty much none".

On the other side, the evidence is that we don't know how minds work. That's a fairly severe lack of evidence.

Free will kind of needs the basics of physics re writing if it exists though.

No, it doesn't. It needs expansion, not rewriting.

Do you need to be responsible for your actions, what difference does it make?

Every difference in everything involving anyone, more or less. If people are not responsible for their actions, there's no real basis for holding anyone accountable for their actions, because they aren't.

 

[Angilion]

You dont need a deity for it to be predicatble.
Its just all energy follows physical laws, so if you could model it you could predict everything. Its not realy predetermined as such. Its junt everything follows set laws.

That statement contradicts itself.

If everything follows set laws, then everything is predetermined (by the starting conditions).

 

[spoffle]

Some people get it and some don't - I think due to their lack of sight.



Why did you find it easy and why did you think you could misbehave because the others were? You can't stop at one generation of answers.

BTW, I've never even seen weed in real life I think. I'll love to see what you do with that!

What you really mean to say is, those who don't agree, just do so because they can't see it properly.

 

[drunkenmaster]

"I'm 19, look at how idealistic I am"

The reason kids misbehave is because parents are more concerned with getting their kids to like them, being freinds to their children than they are in raising them with discipline.

It's all well and fine you want your children to like you all the time, but unless you ensure they feel bad when they behave bad, they will never learn their actions have consequences.

I would differentiate there and say, parents who are more concerned with being liked by their kids generally don't have bad kids, just kids who don't push themselves, don't do chores, don't end up with the drive to succeed well.

Bad kids are actually the ones whose parents ignore them, they act out to get attention, when they don't get it from parents they act out at school, and school being the H&S namby pamby state it's in gives in to the attention by lavishing more attention on them than anyone else, which is precisely the wrong thing to do.

They teach a kid that infact acting out to get attention works, and they continue to do it. You know how many kids I knew at school who were trouble makers who got better when put in special classes, lol. They acted out more, got more violent both because they knew attention worked and by being singled out from everyone else also felt not normal.

Being good or bad has smeg all to do with DNA, it's learned behaviour. It seems with almost every generation that parents do the stupidest thing possible while ignoring the history of raising kids. IE "kids" use to be pushed, work hard(either real work at pretty young ages or in school) disciplined, taught by parents as well as at schools. Every new generation of parents thinks there is some better way to do it, and thinks some fancy scheme will make their kids better. Think not slapping their child will end all domestic abuse, think their kids being treated as kids for longer and longer will make them better more intelligent people.

Bad kids have **** parents in the majority of cases. There are obviously mental health cases where things are different, but the majority of bad kids are simply bad because their parents are ****.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

OP, needs to be gassed.

 

[Glaucus]

There are countless billions of examples of what appears to be people having functioning minds. That isn't "pretty much none" in terms of evidence. It's not completely compelling evidence because it's possible that it's all an illusion, but it's a great deal more evidence than "pretty much none".




, .

A functioning mind is not evidence at all for free will. You do not need free will for a functioning mind, so no, my state is right. Or do you know more than world leading biologists.

That statement contradicts itself.

If everything follows set laws, then everything is predetermined (by the starting conditions).

Its not realy contradictory, its a clarification, that something doesn't have to predetermined.

 

[pitchfork]

I would differentiate there and say, parents who are more concerned with being liked by their kids generally don't have bad kids, just kids who don't push themselves, don't do chores, don't end up with the drive to succeed well.

Bad kids are actually the ones whose parents ignore them, they act out to get attention, when they don't get it from parents they act out at school, and school being the H&S namby pamby state it's in gives in to the attention by lavishing more attention on them than anyone else, which is precisely the wrong thing to do.

They teach a kid that infact acting out to get attention works, and they continue to do it. You know how many kids I knew at school who were trouble makers who got better when put in special classes, lol. They acted out more, got more violent both because they knew attention worked and by being singled out from everyone else also felt not normal.

Being good or bad has smeg all to do with DNA, it's learned behaviour. It seems with almost every generation that parents do the stupidest thing possible while ignoring the history of raising kids. IE "kids" use to be pushed, work hard(either real work at pretty young ages or in school) disciplined, taught by parents as well as at schools. Every new generation of parents thinks there is some better way to do it, and thinks some fancy scheme will make their kids better. Think not slapping their child will end all domestic abuse, think their kids being treated as kids for longer and longer will make them better more intelligent people.

Bad kids have **** parents in the majority of cases. There are obviously mental health cases where things are different, but the majority of bad kids are simply bad because their parents are ****.

I disagree, parents who are concerned with being liked by their kids will never discipline their kids. It's like these delusional ****wits who blame the teachers, the person their kid was booting in the shin, the shop assistant for letting their kid smash the jar and anyone else except them or the kid.

Because "timmy is a special flower and he's so smart and gifted and everyone else is stifling him". It should be legal to kick these *******s right in the reproductive organs.

Kids can be attention seekers, but more likely they haven't been taught respect like my generation were.

In my day, you did bad, you got a wallop, now I'm not saying that is the right or the wrong thing to do, you can give them an ear bashing just the same. But the point is you need to make sure they feel bad because of their actions, it's like aversion therapy, they sure as **** aren't going to act out if it's associated with pain.

Establishing the link between negative actions and negative consequences is parenting 101, soft options, giving your kid an inch? Not an option.

I think there's a misconception bad kids come from bad families, but really, just as many bad kids come from dumb middle classers to who don't know how to raise a kid properly and swallow all this garbage about "letting the kid express itself freely to equilibrium" and crap. Families who are educated, live in a nice house, have money but are useless at parenting.

 

[mrk]

Stopped reading at this. /thread.

I kept reading but out of curiosity.
By all accounts the Universe operates on a randomness and you can't predict everything. Certain things have known cycles and can be predicted, this is scientifically observed so there is evidence to back it up.

Saying everything is predestined though is just wrong? Surely the very fact that we can acknowledge this means we have the power to change any outcome at will which means everything being predestined is just one way that people explain things that are otherwise to scary to comprehend (randomness of the Universe).

OP is correct about one thing, whatever happens does indeed happen. Does it happen for a reason? I think faith at that kind of level is wishful thinking and only a mechanism that mankind invented to keep sanity in check.

Excuse any typos, I'm typing on the move today.

 

[AJK]

Some people get it and some don't - I think due to their lack of sight!

What you really mean to say is, those who don't agree, just do so because they can't see it properly.

You know you don't have an argument when you just fall back to insulting people who think differently, or claiming that they "can't see it properly" without offering any discussion on your belief instead.

 

[AJK]

Its not realy contradictory, its a clarification, that something doesn't have to predetermined.

If it is true that "if you could model it you could predict everything", then by definition everything is predetermined. Leaving free will out of it, there's no room for argument in that, is there?