Korean Grand Prix 2010, Korean International Circuit - Race 17/19

Rosberg has been asking why webber did not hit the brakes to stop himself from rolling back onto the track.

I think Rosberg would have finished in the top 3.


I did notice an excellent bit of car control from Button when he spun towards the end and dabbed the brakes to stop the spin, could easily have gone into a wall. Sadly it was the only impressive thing Button did all weekend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vxfy4/Formula_1_2010_The_Korean_Grand_Prix_Part_2/?t=19m15s
 
woah didnt know this forum page was here

i loved the gp even if petrov made yet another error, [renault supporter] hard luck on vettel at least webbers was his own doing, rbr surely wont throw it away again?!

sutil also had a dire weeknd

but overall the wait was worth it even if i did get up early to no avail
 
Rosberg has been asking why webber did not hit the brakes to stop himself from rolling back onto the track.

I think Rosberg would have finished in the top 3.

I thought most racing drivers would know to aim for where the driver made the mistake, as by the time you get there, they would have gone off the track and out of the way. Easier to say from the arm chair though I guess :)
 
Here's a question: in 2006, after MSc had decided he was quitting F1, he recommended to Ferrari that Kimi should replace him, as he felt he was the best person to replace him. Given that Alonso had hammered MSc in the title race in 2005/6, why did MSc not request Ferrari to bring Alonso to Ferrari? Why did MSc/Ferrari allow Alonso to sign for McLaren?

Remember Ferrari were going to make whoever they signed, the highest paid driver in F1. Why go for 2nd best (Kimi), when you can go for the best (Alonso) and offer that driver the best contract in F1?

Two reasons, at the time it was debatable who was better. Kimi was certainly faster than Alonso when they went head to head but the mclaren let him down.

Secondly Brawn didn't want Kimi, he wanted Alonso. Others didn't they wanted kimi, it split the team. MS recommended Kimi but they didn't expect Kimi to come so soon. MS was going to carry on but Kimi came early forcing MS to retire. There are plenty of articles, about how Ferrari effectively forced MS to retire rather than go head to head with kimi. They wouldn't wait any longer to see if MS would carry on.

They signed Kimi and Brawn wanted out. They didn't go after Kimi when Ms decided to retire, they went after him waiting for MS to make a decision. Hence MS's rather pouty Mansellesq press conference.

"There was a speculation that he was forced into retirement to make way for Kimi Raikkonen joining the Ferrari squad. The rumour was, Michael wants to stick with Felipe Massa as his team mate for the 2007 season and informed Luca Di Montezemolo about it. It looks like Luca has made up his mind with Kimi and wants Kimi to drive for Ferrari by hook or by cook giving up Schumacher and forcing him to retire in the process. I think this was the reason why Michael was so emotional on his post race conference after winning the Monza GP and announcing his retirement."

Again Alonso didn't hammer him for two years. They only went head to head in one year. In 2005 his car was nowhere. It's like saying JV hammered MS for two years 96 and 97.
 
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Again Alonso didn't hammer him for two years. They only went head to head in one year. In 2005 his car was nowhere. It's like saying JV hammered MS for two years 96 and 97.

In 2005, I will agree that the Ferrari really wasn't up to much. Alonso had it relatively easy and it was a nice first title (first title always seems to be the hardest).

In 2006, Ferrari did manage to produce a good car (especially in the later half of the season) and Alonso beat him, fair and square, plain and simple.

IMO, in 2006, MSc was no longer the "daddy" of F1 and he knew it...thus forcing him into retirement. If he felt he was still the best driver in F1 (like he probably did at the end of 2005 - Alonso winning only due to the car advantage), he probably would've stayed on to race in 2007.

Personally, I think MSc retired at the right time, as he had been beaten fair and square, based on skill/speed (and not a car disadvantage), probably for the first time in his career. I have absolutely no idea why he decided to come back in 2010, especially when you consider that he was going up (again) against his old nemesis (Alonso), along with the new kid on the block - Hamilton (who had proved in 2007, that he was Alonso's match). His decision to un-retire has completely bemused me.
 
To be fair Im not sure it was as simple as that sunama. There we're other factors, least of which was the Michelin tyre pressure infringements which gave cars running Michelins a considerable grip advantage and which later was brought to the attention of the FIA (by which time it was too late to capitalise on).
 
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Personally, I think MSc retired at the right time, as he had been beaten fair and square, based on skill/speed (and not a car disadvantage), probably for the first time in his career. I have absolutely no idea why he decided to come back in 2010, especially when you consider that he was going up (again) against his old nemesis (Alonso), along with the new kid on the block - Hamilton (who had proved in 2007, that he was Alonso's match). His decision to un-retire has completely bemused me.

People usually come back for more when they think they were forced prematurely into retirement. Like Prost and Mansell even JV. Where as people happy with their lot stay away, Hill, Hakkinen etc.

I don't think retirement had anything to do with getting beat by Alonso (car advantage or not ) more to do with Kimi as a team mate and all the gadgets going at the same time.

He went at exactly the right time. His return reminds me of fat mansell greasing himself into a Mclaren.
 
What I remember about 2006, was when MSc, at Monza was hauling in Alonso, who was leading. At one stage he was going about 2 secs/lap faster than Alonso (who seemed to be struggling). MSc pulled up behind Alonso (with a 2s/lap advantage, at that stage of the race) and no matter what he tried, could not get passed Alonso. On a track like Monza, with long straights, Alonso did a fantastic job to negate MSc's performance advantage and deny him first place.

For me, that race was the point I felt MSc was a beaten man.
 
People usually come back for more when they think they were forced prematurely into retirement. Like Prost and Mansell even JV. Where as people happy with their lot stay away, Hill, Hakkinen etc.

Prost was clever though. Very clever. They called him the professor. He used every instrument available to him, to beat his opponents, including off-track politics and antics.

He had negotiated a contract to drive at Williams, at a time where Williams was miles ahead of the competition. All the indications showed that in 1993 (when Prost returned), Williams were going to have by far and away the best car in F1.

Prost knew he no longer possessed the powers to take on Senna in an equal car and so decided to get himself the best car in F1, as well as a clause in his contract stating that Senna could not join him as team-mate. This meant that even though Senna had publicly announced that he was prepared to drive for Williams for free and wanted out of McLaren, it just wasn't going to happen in 1993.

In a nutshell, Prost was coming back to F1, just to win the title and then bow out. By this time he no longer had any fight and after he won the title in a car which was generally at least 1s/lap faster than the competition, he called it quits. This of course allowed Williams to hire Senna. I remember pre-season, many thought Williams + Senna = Senna winning 80% of the races (this would be analogous to Hamilton or Alonso moving to RBR). Unfortunately for Senna, it wasn't that easy (for various reasons) and that season for Williams was to be his last season in F1.

I think F1 viewers were robbed of some possible epic battles between MSc and Senna. Senna - probably the fastest driver (after Giles Villeneuve ;)) to ever have driven an F1 car VS MSc - the most complete driver in F1.
 
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Rosberg has been asking why webber did not hit the brakes to stop himself from rolling back onto the track.

I think Rosberg would have finished in the top 3.

I did wonder that, they show a replay of his hands off the wheel, and the wheel turns itself, its one of those situations I think where if he had his hands on the wheel he risks breaking his hands, the car was doing its own thing. Another replay from outside the car from other side of the track show the right front wheel up in the air, the left front was pooped, I'm fairly sure the car was turning on its own no matter what he did. Though it looked weird as after the spin he did seem to hit and be stuck along the wall for a while so looked odd that the car turned away from the wall.

Button was released behind the huge pack, then the SC came out. But a lot of people pitted before him at the back of the pack, I remember Brundle saying how they were faster because their inters were coming upto temp.

This is the thing though, If the guys he was released into had already pitted, and he pitted, then he couldn't have been far infront of them to start with to then get stuck behind them.

Or if say(I can't remember the places, just an example) he was 6th, there was a group say 10-12th 30 seconds back, he pitted, came out in the middle of them. How did they end up 30 seconds back and how did he end up in the middle of them.

I don't know because he wasn't that far down, he was only behind Schumi wasn't he when he pitted, and he came out of the SC which would have been 7th maybe? Gah, basically if he and everyone else from 7th backwards pitted, how did he end up stuck in a large group of people further back? I was under the impression inters weren't doing anything for pace at that stage of the race.

What would be great is(without rewatching it) there was a website that let you see a timeline, like a standings by the lap and flick through every lap and it lists who pitted when, that would make it so much easier.

I mean, if there was no safety car, Button pitted from 7th, ended up 30 seconds further back, then everyone else infront pits, lose 30 seconds, and its roughly as it was before.

With a safety car, button pits, loses 30 seconds, before everyone got picked up by the safety car, everyone pitted, dropped 30 seconds, then got in behind the safety car. Button didn't lose anything by pitting before the safety car, the only way you lose if you don't pit in the safety car, the field all gains on the front, then you pit and end up right at the back.

Basically I can't see what caused Button to pit, like everyone else, and end up dropping several places, then Sutil whacked him off and he dropped another couple.
 
His decision to un-retire has completely bemused me.

Michael Schumacher profession... racing driver.

Where are you bemused exactly?

Mansell stopped racing F1 and went on to race in other things, raikkonen has gone to touring car racing.

End of the day, he's a racing driver, he enjoys racing, he's gone back to racing. If he enjoys it, he enjoys it, and he does seem to. He has actually pulled off several nice overtaking moves throughout the year, and been the victim of many others aswell, thats what will happen to people with less good cars.

Hell, he might just enjoy the female attention you get from being a driver. Theres probably thousands, if not millions of women worldwide who couldn't name a driver to save their lives but if someone points one out in a bar they'd be all over them just because of what they are, rather than who.

Its a lifestyle aswell as a job, its a pretty cuhsy and enjoyable one even if you are in the worst car on the grid. If you happen to love racing aswell, thats a pretty large bonus.

I can think of MANY reasons to want to get back into it. Maybe he wants to race for a few more years with a less good car, maybe he's working on design more than he used to, or paying more attention to engineering, tires, everything else, maybe he wants to move into working for a team, being a team boss maybe at some point and he thinks driving for several more years will help him.
 
What I remember about 2006, was when MSc, at Monza was hauling in Alonso, who was leading. At one stage he was going about 2 secs/lap faster than Alonso (who seemed to be struggling). MSc pulled up behind Alonso (with a 2s/lap advantage, at that stage of the race) and no matter what he tried, could not get passed Alonso. On a track like Monza, with long straights, Alonso did a fantastic job to negate MSc's performance advantage and deny him first place.

For me, that race was the point I felt MSc was a beaten man.

Wrong on both counts. Firstly it was 2005 and it was at San Marino. He won at 2006 in Monza hence the amateur dramatics being discussed in this thread.
 
Wrong on both counts. Firstly it was 2005 and it was at San Marino. He won at 2006 in Monza hence the amateur dramatics being discussed in this thread.

I read sunama's comment thinking :confused::confused::confused: I was so sure that Alonso's engine blew up in 06 and the Monza crowd went absolutely wild. Was the race that put Schumacher back in contention for the championship.
 
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I read sunama's comment thinking :confused::confused::confused: I was so sure that Alonso's engine blew up in 06 and the Monza crowd went absolutely wild. Was the race that put Schumacher back in contention for the championship.

Um....sunama got a historical fact wrong, and you're pulling a confused face? This is hardly a new thing for him. Haven't you been paying attention to his posts over the years? For every fact that he remembers correctly, there are three that he's either partially garbled or flat-out cocked up....

It's part of the reason why I'm reading and posting in these threads a bit less in general these days. I'd feel compelled to correct him (and others when they get stuff just as wrong), and that's just boring. No-one wants to read me posting "Well, no....actually it was like this". Least of all me.
 
All this time, you were quiet...just reading, not posting.

The minute I get a historical fact wrong, you cannot resist posting.

Funny guy.

:D

Just read the last page, since I couldn't be bothered with going through all 12. I get drawn to stuff that's completely out of whack - it just so happened that it was once again you suffering a bit of a memory fail.

12 page thread, and as I type this I only have three or four other posts in it. Last time that happened was when you and ITV managed to grind me down with your blatant lunacy in '08....;)
 
Um....sunama got a historical fact wrong, and you're pulling a confused face?

Well I was confused since I was 99% certain that what he said was wrong but I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt :)

This is hardly a new thing for him. Haven't you been paying attention to his posts over the years? For every fact that he remembers correctly, there are three that he's either partially garbled or flat-out cocked up....
Although I have been a member on OCUK many years, it is only until recently that I started to make posts on the F1 threads on here (I usually post on another forum). So if what you are saying is true, I have not been around long enough to pick it up.

It's part of the reason why I'm reading and posting in these threads a bit less in general these days. I'd feel compelled to correct him (and others when they get stuff just as wrong), and that's just boring. No-one wants to read me posting "Well, no....actually it was like this". Least of all me.

This is the reason why I didnt post in the earlier years because these F1 threads seem to be about Axe Grinding. Still is to be honest :)

Dont ask me why Im posting now though :p
 
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