Kyle Rittenhouse - teen who shot three people in Kenosha

[Nasher]

Well they aren't born criminals, so something about their environment must be responsible for it since genuine psychopathy can't account for everyone.

Exactly, it's their own choice.

Yes. But he still wasnt hit repeatedly around the head with it!

You can die from a single hit to the head...

If you hit someone before they hit you that is still self defense.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Yes. But he still wasnt hit repeatedly around the head with it!

Ok, seeing as you keep getting hung up on the repeatedly thing (not sure I specifically ever said that either, so not sure what the issue is)

I am not sure he would have known specifically which implement hit him at each moment, just that he had taken a number of hits around the head, and that the skateboard guy had dealt at least one, and attempted at least one other occasion earlier.

 

[plasmahal]

Well they aren't born criminals, so something about their environment must be responsible for it since genuine psychopathy can't account for everyone.

They have white privilege though, right? right?

 

[Jono8]

Ok, seeing as you keep getting hung up on the repeatedly thing (not sure I specifically ever said that either, so not sure what the issue is)

I am not sure he would have known specifically which implement hit him at each moment, just that he had taken a number of hits around the head, and that the skateboard guy had dealt at least one, and attempted at least one other occasion earlier.

Ive never talked about what Kyle was thinking in relation to my post today. You are just bringing it around again to the whole self defense argument, which has been done to death already, as i'm sure most would agree.

I was simply talking about what actually happened and the poster misrepresenting what did happen.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

I guess in a riot, the most active members are more likely to have violent tendencies, and previous for the same?

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Ive never talked about what Kyle was thinking in relation to my post today. You are just bringing it around again to the whole self defense argument, which has been done to death already, as i'm sure most would agree.

I was simply talking about what actually happened and the poster misrepresenting what did happen.

Ok, great, thanks for taking part

 

[Demon]

How is it trolling to point out a clear misrepresentation of the facts?

Kyle was not struck repeatedly in the head with a blunt weapon. Forget everything else in your head and just take that statement for what it is.

It is not true.

Did you watch the trial?

Rittenhouse said Huber hit him in the neck with a skateboard and someone hit him in the back of the head with a rock, causing him to stumble. A man tried to kick him in the face after he went down, he said. He fired twice at that man but missed. Rittenhouse said he feared the man “would have stomped my face in.”

Huber hit him in the neck again with the skateboard and grabbed his gun, Rittenhouse said.

“I can feel the strap coming off my body,” he said. “I fire one shot.”

I saw the closing arguments going over him running away and the video evidence presented to the jury, I saw the first skateboard hit, the rock in the hand hit, then Huber hitting him the second time with the skateboard.. Whether partially fumbled.. all three are in the neck/head area.. Not to mention the jump kick in the midst of all that.

So taking what I think out of it, that's twice in the neck with a skateboard (and once in the head with a rock).

???

 

[Jono8]

Did you watch the trial?


I saw the closing arguments going over him running away and the video evidence presented to the jury, I saw the first skateboard hit, the rock in the hand hit, then Huber hitting him the second time with the skateboard.. Whether partially fumbled.. all three are in the neck/head area.. Not to mention the jump kick in the midst of all that.

A rock and a skateboard are blunt instruments and wielded by a normal person could most certainly inflict lethal damage to anyone..


You are trolling if you insist on going down a rabbit hole to an alternate reality where rocks and skateboards wielded as weapons are seen as unable to do any meaningful harm..


Or to be specific, it's more your logic/reasoning around the self defence aspect that is difficult to comprehend:
- Self defence is not based on having lethal force applied, it's about a belief that lethal force may be applied, i.e. in that moment was Kyle justified in thinking lethal force may ensue? Well, he only shot after 4 specific hits (Skateboard, Rock, Jump Kick, Skateboard) and being on the floor with huber attempting to pull his gun off him..

What?

My post today has simply been about it being false that he was struck repeatedly in the head with a blunt weapon (as that didn't happen). I haven't said a skateboard cannot be used as a deadly weapon. If Huber was holding it two handed and clearly swung with force it at Kyle's head repeatedly (or even once) then yes I would agree that that was deadly force.

That isn't what happened though, and I agree with the chap in the video Malt Vinegar posted.

 

[Twinz]

Yes. But he still wasnt hit repeatedly around the head with it!

Does this change the fact that he was being attacked with it?

If I use a skateboard to attack someone who is armed with a rifle, I expect them to shoot me with their rifle, and I want the law to side with the armed person I am attacking.

I want people to be allowed carry a weapon to defend themselves, and I don't want them to have to wait until their weapon is taken from them before the law allows them to use it.

People should be allowed to use their weapon to stop an attacker from taking their weapon from them.

People should be allowed to use their weapon to stop someone from incapacitating them because, once an attacker incapacitates you, they can now use your weapon to kill you.

I think the root of the disagreement is that some people don't think citizens should be allowed the means to defend themselves with deadly force. If you start from the position that the government should have a monopoly on deadly force, there is no proper way for any citizen to use their own firearm.

I think this is why some posters in this thread don't think he was in *enough* danger to kill his attackers. He basically needed to put himself in a position where he could no longer defend himself, (by getting dazed, knocked out, and/or having his attackers gain control of his weapon)....*then* he would have been justified in using the firearm he no longer had or could no longer use to defend himself.

 

[Jono8]

Does this change the fact that he was being attacked with it?

No.

As i keep saying, this extra argument about the self defense has been done to death . I was simply calling someone out for misrepresenting what happened.

 

[hornetstinger]

Does this change the fact that he was being attacked with it?

If I use a skateboard to attack someone who is armed with a rifle, I expect them to shoot me with their rifle, and I want the law to side with the armed person I am attacking.

I want people to be allowed carry a weapon to defend themselves, and I don't want them to have to wait until their weapon is taken from them before the law allows them to use it.

People should be allowed to use their weapon to stop an attacker from taking their weapon from them.

People should be allowed to use their weapon to stop someone from incapacitating them because, once an attacker incapacitates you, they can now use your weapon to kill you.

I think the root of the disagreement is that some people don't think citizens should be allowed the means to defend themselves with deadly force. If you start from the position that the government should have a monopoly on deadly force, there is no proper way for any citizen to use their own firearm.

I think this is why some posters in this thread don't think he was in *enough* danger to kill his attackers. He basically needed to put himself in a position where he could no longer defend himself, (by getting dazed, knocked out, and/or having his attackers gain control of his weapon)....*then* he would have been justified in using the firearm he no longer had or could no longer use to defend himself.

He shouldn't be acting like robocop. He's not trained riot police.

 

[Twinz]

He shouldn't be acting like robocop. He's not trained riot police.

Thanks for making my point.

 

[dowie]

Kyle was not struck on the head repeatedly with a blunt weapon. That is a fact. That is the post i was taking objection to.

Nah, he kinda was, I know that's what you were objecting to, your objection is silly.

I'm not arguing any other point right now, as its been done to death. However, that comment was just factually not true.

Nah, if you want to nit-pick over how many times counts for "repeatedly" to be used then he was struck on the head with a blunt weapon (a skateboard) more than once.

Beyond that, it's just a silly argument to make.

 

[Jono8]

Nah, he kinda was, I know that's what you were objecting to, your objection is silly.

I'm sorry but its like watching you try and tell me the earth is flat right now.Its just getting weird.

Kyle was not struck repeatedly in the head with a blunt weapon.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

He shouldn't be acting like robocop. He's not trained riot police.

Robocop?? Have you seen American police respond to aggression? They operate firearms without anywhere near the trigger discipline shown by Kyle?!

What he was doing has been part of American culture since the earliest days. Operating as part of a "militia" to protect the American dream. The results of this day were sown on the 4th of July 1776.

You cannot look at this without understanding that American gun culture is VERY different to the UK. Owning, walking about with a gun is an everyday occurrence. Kyle was exiting the scene, approaching a visible police presense and attempting to remove himself from the situation.

Did you hear the number of OTHER gun shots that were heard just during the little part of the video showing Rittenhouse's antics? Guns are normal in the US.

 

[hornetstinger]

Robocop?? Have you seen American police respond to aggression? They operate firearms without anywhere near the trigger discipline shown by Kyle?!

What he was doing has been part of American culture since the earliest days. Operating as part of a "militia" to protect the American dream. The results of this day were sown on the 4th of July 1776.

You cannot look at this without understanding that American gun culture is VERY different to the UK. Owning, walking about with a gun is an everyday occurrence. Kyle was exiting the scene, approaching a visible police presense and attempting to remove himself from the situation.

Did you hear the number of OTHER gun shots that were heard just during the little part of the video showing Rittenhouse's antics? Guns are normal in the US.

Ah right so if other people are violent with guns that means it's ok.

Nope.

Also You're diverting from Kyle if he didn't take it upon himself to be self appointed armed riot police he wouldn't have shot anyone. He went out of his way to be there.

Again he thought he had right to be be armed riot police.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Again he thought he had right to be be armed riot police.

He did and still does.
The law of the land has proven this...

 

[hornetstinger]

He did and still does.
The law of the land has proven this...

You would be ok with a group of blacks and Muslims walking around with legally owned guns then.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

You would be ok with a group of blacks and Muslims walking around with legally owned guns then.

They can and DO in AMERICA... Nothing to do with what I think!!

What's your point? I said nothing about race? Why are you trying to make it about race?

Are you ok?

 

[hornetstinger]

They can and DO in AMERICA... Nothing to do with what I think!!

What's your point? I said nothing about race? Why are you trying to make it about race?

Are you ok?

So you're saying 30 Muslim looking men holding legally owned ak-47 on the street in the USA won't get any different reaction from public/police than 30 white men?

Lol
Point is Kyle thought he can become riot police, what happened was a direct result of him being there.

Again what armed police training did he have? Was he working with a unit? Wearing police uniform?

How do you know the crowd didn't see him as a mass shooter? Alone with a gun?