Lan noise reducer

[JasonM]

Like I said I'm not electrically minded but the connection is made on the gold plating for good conductivity, it then has to pass through a layer of nickel (poor conductivity) to get to the copper (good conductivity)..... I don't get the benefit.

Apparently the Nickel is a good conductor providing it's not oxidized.

MCRU has this on it.

The Conductivity of Metals Used in Hi-Fi.

Different conductor materials are being used for audio purposes, the superiority of which is often being claimed by the respective

www.mcru.co.uk

 

[NickK]

RC Low-pass Filter Design Tool

This may be of interest.

If the cap had a resistor in series then it would be a snubber which is used for absorbing spikes such as transients.

 

[theone8181]

Nickels pretty poor for RF, although I guess 20khz isn't that high the skin effect is only microns thick. We have dome gold coated copper at work, can confirm nickel has to be used as an intermediate for the leeching reason. Copper doesn't always oxidise that much, we have some parts that are several years old and still shiny.

 

[NickK]

Nickels pretty poor for RF, although I guess 20khz isn't that high the skin effect is only microns thick. We have dome gold coated copper at work, can confirm nickel has to be used as an intermediate for the leeching reason. Copper doesn't always oxidise that much, we have some parts that are several years old and still shiny.

Yup. It's important to understand that there's a fundamental difference in the way electricity flows when AC is below about 100KHz and above 1MHz. You start seeing silver plating on RF decks because silver is better conducting than copper and, as current flows less through a conductor and more around the surface (note I say around) this is why RF decks are often running with hollow pipes for conductors, it makes sense to get the lowest impedance across the surface.
Additionally the return current (as the current has to create a loop to flow), also behaves differently - low frequency it travels direct through lowest resistants via the shortest lowest resistance path back to the source, this can be different to outward current path. DC works this way and up to about 100KHz too.. then later it actually flows back closest lowest impedance (which happens to be the capacitive medium caused by the PCB material etc) which is why you will see return paths under the track of the outward path.

Below is 1KHz left and 1MHz right - you can see that the return current flows back through the left side (lowest resistance) but at 1MHz it's almost all back under the outward path - this is why return currents are so much fun your return current for low frequency may be a completely different path to high frequency riding on it (and that may be through IC chips way off the beaten track!):

Source: https://www.nwengineeringllc.com/article/how-to-design-your-pcb-return-current-path.php

As frequency goes up the less you should think of energy travelling along a conductor.. more hovering around it or at the surface.. Think of EMI as a radiated field around the above.. and you now see why knocking out the interference before it gets into a shielded area is the best course of action as that EMI field bridges across other conductors.

I designed my isolator and clocking board specifically to minimise the loops for DC return current and high frequency switching return currents (clock was only a mere 24MHz but harmonics for a square wave are multiples and that really causes noise!). I'm not an expert but I'm just passing on what I've learnt through building that from people that know a lot more than me that gave me some guiding pointers.

 

[BF-Bert]

Apparently the Nickel is a good conductor providing it's not oxidized.

MCRU has this on it.

The Conductivity of Metals Used in Hi-Fi.

Different conductor materials are being used for audio purposes, the superiority of which is often being claimed by the respective

www.mcru.co.uk

Nickel is a poor conductor relative to gold and copper. I see the benefit of gold providing a non oxidising connector but in my head the conductivity can't be more than the nickel layer that it has to pass through to get to the copper.

 

[JasonM]

Nickel is a poor conductor relative to gold and copper. I see the benefit of gold providing a non oxidising connector but in my head the conductivity can't be more than the nickel layer that it has to pass through to get to the copper.

The gold over the Nickel is covering the entirety of the Nickel, where the pins are only part contacting the plug on device side. Also Wattgate claim it's to stop oxidation. I don't claim to fully understand this, but my better Russ Andrews cables (that are used on source components) have the audio grade Wattgates on them.

Over the copper Wattgates I clean them out once a year with contact cleaner to keep on top of oxidization. Everything in audio is law of deminishing returns,and the biggest jump in performance is going from a basic iec plug to the cheaper copper Wattgates. Again I don't claim to understand everything,

 

[GoRedwings19]

@JasonM I have used a few of the leads with wattgates on them. I have a few from RA, Isotek, Burmester etc. I did have the Yello power leads and the silencer from RA. I didn't really think much of the silencer or the Yello power leads.

 

[JasonM]

@JasonM I have used a few of the leads with wattgates on them. I have a few from RA, Isotek, Burmester etc. I did have the Yello power leads and the silencer from RA. I didn't really think much of the silencer or the Yello power leads.

What power cables do you prefer, what do you think of Isoket for example?

I own 2 of the older Yello powers in yellow nylon braid, they were the first cables I purchased pre-owned from eBay and triggered me down the RA path. They are an improvement over standard IEC leads, I have some active studio monitors, and a Yello power on one monitor, and a standard IEC on other monitor will unbalance the sound. I also own 8TC high power, reference and Powerkord 300, these are better then the Yellos, again I buy all my cables pre-owned. My Yello powers are currently not in use, that's only due to having better cables available.

As a side note, I own some Audioquest power cables that I purchased in a PeterTyson clearance with around 80% off, my Audioquest cables are NRG-2 and NRG-X2. They are very well made and look the part in the spec's, they use twisted cables to provide some shielding, however they are not as good as even RA Yello powers, I make this point to highlight not all power cables are the same. If I had tried these Audioquest first I might not have continued the path I went down.

I use the Silencer's close to sources of noise, they benefit but the effect is subtle when used like this. I own an RA powerblock, RA mini purifiers, and mega clamps. It's the totality of everything combined that makes the greatest difference. My audio is the best it's ever been, yet I never changed any speakers or components.

I also use some RA 8TC High Power cables on computer monitors, as the noise reduction from using the cables improves picture quality. I'm a software dev and look at triple screens, the improvement from the cables is subtle but it's there.

 

[Broken Hope]

Power cables improving picture quality? Now I'm convinced you're making things up or are crazy.

 

[JasonM]

Power cables improving picture quality? Now I'm convinced you're making things up or are crazy.

It's the geometry of the cable, it's in a pattern that rejects RFI from the mains. So in the case of the 8TC cable there are 8 pairs of live and neutral woven in a pattern that rejects RFI. In fairness I have some other mains conditioning products on the power to monitors also.

The difference on video is far less obvious than audio, however it is there. I'm not crazy just ahead of most others on these things.

 

[Armageus]

The difference on video is far less obvious than audio, however it is there. I'm not crazy just ahead of most others on these things.

Let me guess the colours are richer, and scenes are more detailed.

 

[JasonM]

Let me guess the colours are richer, and scenes are more detailed.

Better quality picture, as said it's subtle.

They have been fitting ferrite beads to DC cables for years to remove RF/EMI, no one questions this??

The RA Kimber power cables also remove RF/EMI but it's done with the geometry of the cable. It's better this way as it removes a greater range of frequencies, downside is it's far more expensive compared to simple ferrite beads.

 

[Broken Hope]

Better picture quality how? It's a digital signal displayed on a digital display, removing RFI isn't going to make my text sharper or my colours better, that's simply impossible. You are so far down the rabbit hole.

Again any difference in image quality would be measurable which I'm guessing you can't produce measurements, can you?

Back in the days of CRT's and analogue connections reducing RFI might have made some difference, but not in the digital screens we have now.

 

[JasonM]

Better picture quality how? It's a digital signal displayed on a digital display, removing RFI isn't going to make my text sharper or my colours better, that's simply impossible. You are so far down the rabbit hole.

Blog from display manufacture on how EMI effects displays.

Mitigating Electromagnetic Interference in Display Technologies Across Sectors: A Comprehensive Guide - Riverdi

Unlock the secrets to effectively mitigating Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) in display technologies. From home appliances to industrial systems, learn how to ensure reliability and compliance. Discover how Riverdi's customizable displays can be your solution to EMI challenges.

riverdi.com

 

[Joe Jones]

I'm always amazed at how a braided/shielded 1-2 meter length of cable from the wall to appliance can mitigate all the emi and noise a standard mains cable running through the house to the electrical transformers picks up along it's path. Clearly a bargain...they can probably charge more to be honest.

 

[JasonM]

I'm always amazed at how a braided/shielded 1-2 meter length of cable from the wall to appliance can mitigate all the emi and noise a standard mains cable running through the house to the electrical transformers picks up along it's path. Clearly a bargain...they can probably charge more to be honest.

The power cable is the first cable, not the last.

The ones with outer braided shield can't remove any existing noise, however the power cables that are twisted, or in a woven geometry can.

This has been known about since Bell twisted telephone cables to get telephone lines to operate the distance across the USA.

Twisted vs. Untwisted Wires

The "Twisted Pair" is a technology used in almost every electronic device. It is especially important for audio, video, and network cables. Have you ever won...

www.youtube.com

The RA Kimber power cables are not just a twisted pair, in the case of an 8TC there is 16 individual copper cores, plus single earth. Those individual copper cores have a specific geometry that's very good at reducing RFI from the AC mains, and helping prevent it going into your equipment. The number of separate copper cores also reduce impedance.

 

[Firestar_3x]

I'm always amazed at how a braided/shielded 1-2 meter length of cable from the wall to appliance can mitigate all the emi and noise a standard mains cable running through the house to the electrical transformers picks up along it's path. Clearly a bargain...they can probably charge more to be honest.

Yea, its why i run 2p per m speaker cable for the first 2m then £1,000 per m for the last 30cm...........

 

[JasonM]

Yea, its why i run 2p per m speaker cable for the first 2m then £1,000 per m for the last 30cm...........

Your home is normally fed by a 80 amp supply into the consumer unit.
Each ring main is then normally 30 amp.
The mains sockets going to your devices are of course 13 amp.

So it's the impedance of the cables connecting to your devices that is the restriction, not the ring main or grid before that. This is why low impedance power cables can benefit.

 

[GoRedwings19]

What power cables do you prefer, what do you think of Isoket for example?

I own 2 of the older Yello powers in yellow nylon braid, they were the first cables I purchased pre-owned from eBay and triggered me down the RA path. They are an improvement over standard IEC leads, I have some active studio monitors, and a Yello power on one monitor, and a standard IEC on other monitor will unbalance the sound. I also own 8TC high power, reference and Powerkord 300, these are better then the Yellos, again I buy all my cables pre-owned. My Yello powers are currently not in use, that's only due to having better cables available.

As a side note, I own some Audioquest power cables that I purchased in a PeterTyson clearance with around 80% off, my Audioquest cables are NRG-2 and NRG-X2. They are very well made and look the part in the spec's, they use twisted cables to provide some shielding, however they are not as good as even RA Yello powers, I make this point to highlight not all power cables are the same. If I had tried these Audioquest first I might not have continued the path I went down.

I use the Silencer's close to sources of noise, they benefit but the effect is subtle when used like this. I own an RA powerblock, RA mini purifiers, and mega clamps. It's the totality of everything combined that makes the greatest difference. My audio is the best it's ever been, yet I never changed any speakers or components.

I also use some RA 8TC High Power cables on computer monitors, as the noise reduction from using the cables improves picture quality. I'm a software dev and look at triple screens, the improvement from the cables is subtle but it's there.

Difficult to say. The Isotek power lead was given to me by an audio dealer to try out and they never asked for them back. So I sling it on my little amp for the PC. I don't use the RA power leads any more so they just sit there being unused. And the Burmester power lead came with the amp so I just use that on my main hi fi amp. Coincidentally I don't like running my main hi fi amp off the RA block. I prefer to run it direct from the wall.

I have long since stop purchasing audio equipment years ago and have stopped buying audio accessories to go with it even before I gave up purchasing new audio equipment. I have never tried Audioquest cables. Or at least I can't remember.

Isn't the 8TC using the same 8TC speaker cable? I remember years ago it was held in high regard. Do you use any RA speaker cable?

 

[JasonM]

Coincidentally I don't like running my main hi fi amp off the RA block. I prefer to run it direct from the wall.

Plugging directly to the wall gives a lower impedance than using a mains extension. Amp's are more sensitive to impedance, that is likely why you prefer powering from the wall. Mr.Sukebe who's posting in this thread does exactly the same despite owning a balanced mains unit.

Isn't the 8TC using the same 8TC speaker cable? I remember years ago it was held in high regard. Do you use any RA speaker cable?

Any RA powerkord above a Yello power, (so that's classic / high power / reference / Evo and above), the cable uses higher grade copper and Teflon dielectric that reduces capacitance, the copper cores are probably something very similar to Kimber TCX if not Kimber TCX.

I don't use any RA speaker cable, I'm using 4mm DCSK from Germany. Also I don't have any RA interconnects, I use Van Damme Lo-Cap 55 silver series interconnects.

What RA block do you own, I have a powerbar S, and a RA power block (that's the 8 socket thing in a triangle type shape).