^ he's referring to the additional Protect Plus cover (£140) which covers burn-in https://www.johnlewis.com/our-services/protect-plus
LG 48CX OLED - 4K 120 Hz
- Thread starter Vega
- Start date
Fair point but
what is not included
- if you don’t follow the manufacturer’s instructions and/or installation guidelines.
- enhanced wall mount service for TV installation
Warranties, LG and Sony explicitly state that image retention and Burn-in is not covered as it is caused by consumer usage and is not a product defect
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Fair point but
what is not included
Meaning only normal use of the TV page 15 owners manual and the policy is provided by Domestic & General Insurance I am sure they will find away to get out of it or blame you.
- if you don’t follow the manufacturer’s instructions and/or installation guidelines.
- enhanced wall mount service for TV installation
Warranties, LG and Sony explicitly state that image retention and Burn-in is not covered as it is caused by consumer usage and is not a product defect
Following manufacturers guidance involves keeping features like image shift and pixel refresh enabled. There is a very strong argument that using a television as a television, to watch content etc. is the intended purpose of the product. If you are using the product for it's intended definition, in a regular consumer fashion (i.e. not as a store display running CNN 20 hours a day) and you get burn in after 2-3 years I find it very hard to believe the warranty would not be honoured. I would suggest small claims court might take a very similar view of "normal use of the TV" should the need arise.
Good question really, probably us CX owners will find out in 2-3 years but not banking on it given how much burn proof tech is in this oled panel.
From what I have seen on some much older panels, logos would get burned in and cause a distraction during some scenes. Course after a while your eyes and brain would adapt and you kinda just watch the picture not the issue, having said that many are in another boat where once they see an issue they can't unsee it afterwards.
While I can't be 100% sure if burn in is truly fixed with all the effort LG has done tech wise, at least my 5-year cover will cover burn in thanks to John Lewis insurance, probably won't ever use it but will sleep better at night at least.
From what I have heard no real fuss mentioned around the net for either company, it's the law also and they gotta follow it.
Fair point but
what is not included
Meaning only normal use of the TV page 15 owners manual and the policy is provided by Domestic & General Insurance I am sure they will find away to get out of it or blame you.
- if you don’t follow the manufacturer’s instructions and/or installation guidelines.
- enhanced wall mount service for TV installation
Warranties, LG and Sony explicitly state that image retention and Burn-in is not covered as it is caused by consumer usage and is not a product defect
Agree with companies sometimes trying to worm out of coughing up, D&G however have been ticking for 100+ years now and with LG and some retailers giving customers a £200 swap out panel (usually for banding issues not covered) hopefully we see less customer issues.
Also people have gone to court and asked the judge if a £1500 TV should last 3 years ? or asked the judge should I not be allowed to watch BBC news for a few hours each day ? you can also say the TV was not fit for its intended purpose. Judge has sided with the customer usually. Before you do that though try complaining on the retailers social media Twitter/Facebook/Instagram etc page sometimes a public outcry gets results. Posting on Avforums is handy too you get many retailers there (richer sounds, john lewis) and they take more action when something publicly has gone wrong.
I take screenshots of my TV settings with screen shift on, logo luminance high, cover your own back since no one else will !
The lifespan of an LG OLED is 100,000 hours (11 years of constant use) 2020 model and LG did say (It is rare for an average TV consumer to create an environment that could result in burn-in.) I hope LG is right and not just hype
and all of you buy from JL extra cover will give you peace of mind hope so, the weird part is LG says constant use then says average use and some websites say normal use, it's an nightmare. In my opinion why did LG build a OLED TV for gamers if we have to limited playing games and streaming on a OLEDSay if you just play games and not change the content play 16 hours a day = 5,840 a year =64,240 in 11 years
35,760 left to use before the panel diesTime will only tell
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Yeah I don't care about burn-in anymore thanks to the warranty. If that had existed last year, I would have bought this from the get-go rather than my AW3420DW ultrawide. But now the concern is about the actual implementation of HDMI 2.1 with the numerous bugs, because in fairness the ultrawide is a gorgeous monitor and I'm really happy and content with it. This upgrade would potentially be for my endgame display, so I'd like to make sure it'll be that noticeable flawless experience. Worst comes to worst, I'm happy to wait another couple of months for the CXI/C11, or see what other manufacturers are offering with HDMI 2.1 OLEDs.
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I returned the 55" due to white uniformity issues - barely noticeable tbh but I had to accept it was simply too big, so downgrading to the 48" when they have stock.
I'm not sure John Lewis have a future - the returns process for a £1400 TV was too fast and efficient. Free collection, no testing done their end, prompt refund.
Fair point but
what is not included
Meaning only normal use of the TV page 15 owners manual and the policy is provided by Domestic & General Insurance I am sure they will find away to get out of it or blame you.
- if you don’t follow the manufacturer’s instructions and/or installation guidelines.
- enhanced wall mount service for TV installation
Warranties, LG and Sony explicitly state that image retention and Burn-in is not covered as it is caused by consumer usage and is not a product defect
Having been burned by insurance many times in the past, I hear you. But I've also had JL replace the entire panel on a TV under a similar insurance from them, after my 5yo son decided he wanted to see how easy glass could scratch. I couldn't replace my son but JL had no issue replacing the screen
. It was painless and easy - called them up, they collected the TV for repair, returned it with brand new panel in perfect condition. Technically, yes, they can try to worm out of it. But I am not worried at all about JL / protect plus trying to screw me over. It even explicitly says it covers burn in and accidental damage. JL is the best place to buy this kind of gear from in my experience over the years. Now if you buy from Curry's - good luck to you.
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It's sad, but probably true. Then again, this is why we shop at JL. Somehow the US has this as standard practice almost everywhere (painless returns) and it works out.
I actually think around 60-80cm is about perfect for the 48" in terms of PPI. I wouldn't want to sit any farther back than 80cm. I'm at around 70cm and I still find myself leaning in when reading things. For watching content and immersive gaming w/ a controller though, I definitely scoot back.
I think I may have blown the gloss out of proportion a bit - it's really not that bad at all. Even now I have the sun shining in my room, and it's barely noticeable (but you can definitely see reflections if I look at it). YMMV depending on how sensitive you are to this.
What is this issue? Gsync works without issue for me.
Maybe you don't notice it, but lots of people are complaining about g-sync stuttering in the 100-119 FPS range. That is if you use an FPS limiter to eliminate input lag, or you get reduced frames, there is obvious stutter that shouldn't happen with g-sync. With the trick I mentioned (taken from the avforums), this stuttering seems to go away.
Yeah I think it will depend how sensitive you are to this. Coming from LCD the blacks are so good that I didn't notice any problem - just how awesome everything looks. I've been playing doom eternal w/ g-sync and HDR and it just looks amazing. I've noticed zero issues. I'm guessing if I tried to look for it explicity I'd see it, somehow. I also couldn't find where LG says it is unfixable - the only official statement I found is that LG is aware of raised near-blacks in VRR, and implies it is an issue w/ g-sync itself - so present on all g-sync screens. Basically it sounds like a slight gamma shift due to g-sync's VRR implementation, but no one has described in detail as far as I can find. So I'm not sure if this means it's unfixable.
Regardless, it seems minor to me when every LCD tech has far worse contrast/blacks. I might change my mind though if I play a game where it is noticeable. I just bought Control in the halloween sale, so maybe I'll give that a whirl this weekend.
Here's Vincent as the source that broke the news from LG on it being a hardware issue rather than software:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfl3UdWZIUQ
That was pretty interesting. As he states in that youtube, the gamma shifting also exists on LCD screens. This is basically an inherent issue with VRR on high refresh rate monitors. Different refresh rates lead to different gamma because the pixel refresh times are dynamically changing. It is more noticeable on OLED because of the greater dynamic range at the low end and/or nature of the way OLED pixels charge.
Since the artifact is a result of charge times differing, it means the gamma shift is dependent on how far away your FPS is from 120Hz. If you get 117 constant FPS, there should be virtually no gamma shift. Now I'm unsure how the tests which show VRR shift problems were done - were they done at 60Hz? Or do they observe problems even at 120Hz with VRR on? If the latter, from my understanding of the linked article/youtube, it is a different problem. This means as long as you get high FPS, it should not be very noticeable. But if you try to game at 60 FPS with G-sync, it may become much more noticeable.
LG says they might be able to address it by dynamically applying different gamma profiles per hz range. So I guess they would dynamically adjust the gamma based on if you're near 60Hz for example. In theory you could simply do this yourself by calibrating at 60Hz with VRR, but it would be a pain to change it all the time. I don't completely understand why this requires a panel level change (and neither does LG say it does in their statement), but I guess we'll find out. Worse case is you can wait a year for the next revision which will hopefully fix this particular VRR issue.
The lifespan of an LG OLED is 100,000 hours (11 years of constant use) 2020 model and LG did say (It is rare for an average TV consumer to create an environment that could result in burn-in.) I hope LG is right and not just hype
Say if you just play games and not change the content play 16 hours a day = 5,840 a year =64,240 in 11 years
Time will only tell
Sure will, but ill be renewing my D&G warranty for sure if the price is right after 5 years, TVs don't last forever my Samsung 40" LED panel went funny 3 years after with white cloudy effects on the top panel and JL sent 2 guys down, one look at it and said it needs a new panel, came back a week later and replaced the panel in 20 minutes and perfect again.
Hopefully my CX panel dies in a few years time, and they sadly have to give me the latest model free.
Someone on avforums said the CX48 will come down to 1.4K again in Black Friday, but he didn't mention the source so not sure if true or not also the 55cx will come down also to 1.2-3k, if one can bag a £100 gift voucher and free £80 FN4 ear phones maybe its worth a check.
Still I agree if you can wait LG will probably release the C11 next summer/fall and imo it's always better to have hdmi 2.1 devices on the shelves and in peoples homes so one can support it properly, the CX seems a bit of a flaky with its lack of DTS support and lack of full hdmi 2.1 hardware, it's not like it doesn't cost an arm and leg as it is.
It's the Consumer law id guess they had no choice, quite a few retailers are having to ignore certain protocols due to covid so things are moving along much easier than before just don't try to fill your LG box with 14kg of bricks and ask for a refund
As for JL, I think they are doing fine there TVs are flying off the shelves literally, they get so many products stock request it could be there in the unique spot to offer burn proof for oleds.