London Bridge Incident

[Chris Wilson]

Heroes unite the most disparate of people.

Personally I see it as we have the countries best interests at heart simply different interpretations of the path there.

Wilson nods sagely and thanks Tefal for his very British attitude and nice comment

 

[platypus]

Due process for everyone, when you start to withdraw rights and erode a fair system it doesn't just affect those who admittedly don't deserve such rights but affects everyone.

Removing fair due process would make a mockery of our legal system which is a cornerstone to our western society.

Good enough for Herr May.

 

[Tefal]

If everyone knows that upon committing such a crime (e.g. murder of innocent bystanders), you waive all rights to representation, it remains perfectly fair.

no it doesn't.

it corrupts the law fully and irrevocably.


everyone has the right to representation, from king to homless bum, murderer to saint.

we cannot and will not be divided into Waring clans.

we are British our morals, our integrity is worth more than lives.

its the both sad and hopeful truth that this is what our country is known for.

 

[Tosno]

I see that the Saudi Arabia football team refused to hold a minute's silence for the London victims.

 

[Tefal]

I see that the Saudi Arabia football team refused to hold a minute's silence for the London victims.

****'s

 

[Chris Wilson]

Does the existence or not of (the eminently well regarded) UK law and due process have much influence on a suicide bomber's or a terrorist's strategies?

 

[TJM]

That's a load of rubbish, anyone can use any level of force up to and including lethal to protect themselves or others, as long as it's "reasonable" under the circumstances.
This is exactly the same position as the police are in, with the exception that the police are legally allowed to carry what would normally be classed as offensive weapons to assist as it is recognised that they are expected to face situations where they'll need them to perform their duties on a regular basis.

Spot on but you are wasting your breath. People who have bought into the Daily Mail line on self defence can't be convinced.

 

[Chris Wilson]

I see that the Saudi Arabia football team refused to hold a minute's silence for the London victims.

Clamping and tow away session around Harrods called for...

 

[Tefal]

Does the existence or not of (the eminently well regarded) UK law and due process have much influence on a suicide bomber's or a terrorist's strategies?

no but it shapes us.

it influence us what we will allow and what we will forbid.

which leaves us in the unfortunate hole between rushed anti terror legislation and attempted murder legislation.

i think a time is needed to be set aside and a cross party plan thought out,.

which is about as likely as my jizz turning to gold

 

[Tefal]

That's a load of rubbish, anyone can use any level of force up to and including lethal to protect themselves or others, as long as it's "reasonable" under the circumstances.
This is exactly the same position as the police are in, with the exception that the police are legally allowed to carry what would normally be classed as offensive weapons to assist as it is recognised that they are expected to face situations where they'll need them to perform their duties on a regular basis.


The only people that others are calling racists are those who lump every muslim in with the terrorists, a lot of the people treating those injured will be Muslim, in other attacks it's been Muslims who have been involved in trying to stop the attackers or running in to help the injured whilst the risk is still high.

the police are not in the same situation as members of the public.


they have to account for everyone not just themselves (thought they have that fall back) they should think of every one around them.

thier lives as willful combatants come secondary to the innocents.

 

[cheesyboy]

I see that the Saudi Arabia football team refused to hold a minute's silence for the London victims.

To be fair, we don't ourselves have many silences for victims of terrorism in the middle east or Asia. Or the 2,000 who died in the mecca stampede a couple of years ago etc

 

[Yas786]

To be fair, we don't ourselves have many silences for victims of terrorism in the middle east or Asia. Or the 2,000 who died in the mecca stampede a couple of years ago etc

Pretty much what I was going to say but you beat me to it.

Maybe they have their reasons for not doing so?? Who knows

I mean let's be fair, we are more than happy to arm them to the teeth but when they don't pay respect to a terrorist attack, we are quick to call them all sorts lol.

For the record I despise the Saudi monarchy and what they stand for. So no I'm not a Saudi apologist or anything of the like.

 

[manic111]

Does the existence or not of (the eminently well regarded) UK law and due process have much influence on a suicide bomber's or a terrorist's strategies?

No. But it stops us from stooping to their level. What's the point in fighting terrorism if you're going to corrupt your own values and morals to do so?

 

[scorza]

To be fair, we don't ourselves have many silences for victims of terrorism in the middle east or Asia. Or the 2,000 who died in the mecca stampede a couple of years ago etc

The point is they were playing Australia who were holding the minute's silence - at least one Australian national was killed in London. If England was playing an Asian nation who were holding a minute's silence, you can be sure we would respect it.

 

[platypus]

The point is they were playing Australia who were holding the minute's silence - at least one Australian national was killed in London. If England was playing an Asian nation who were holding a minute's silence, you can be sure we would respect it.

From a football crowd who have had to have minutes applause introduced because some can't keep quiet or be respectful during a silence?

 

[Roar87]

What's sad about the millwall fan is that everyone ran off and left him. In a pub with pint glasses/chairs etc on hand you'd have thought that someone would have jumped in and nailed the terrorists over the head while they were attacking one single guy.

It makes me quite sad actually

I'm someone who's willing to help out people in public, I've put several people in the recovery position, one who was turning blue and choking on their own tongue I think. In general I'd be willing to intervene where possible if it means saving someones life. In that instance I would've ran as fast as I could, they had what appeared to be suicide vests on and were wielding 12 inch blades, it would be completely reasonable to assume that it's almost certain death if you tackled one to the ground or took them on, I don't blame anyone for running.

 

[Tosno]

To be fair, we don't ourselves have many silences for victims of terrorism in the middle east or Asia. Or the 2,000 who died in the mecca stampede a couple of years ago etc

To be more fair, I've never seen the England football team refuse to join in a minutes silence with another country and have a kick about instead during it.

 

[McBain]

I see that the Saudi Arabia football team refused to hold a minute's silence for the London victims.

Just seen that myself, disgusting.

 

[chief barker]

Just seen that myself, disgusting.

Not quite as bad as the Turkish football fans booing and chanting during a minutes silence after the Paris attacks.

 

[TheVoice]

they had several seconds, or you know could have pulled up further away?

afgaiun not critsing the police. but i just feel members of the public outshone them here in terms of suicidal bravery

They needed to be close enough to identify the threat and engage.

Really not sure why you feel the need to diminish what the police officers did here, or suggest that some individuals were "braver" than others. It's not a competition.