London Bridge Incident

[Ben3991]

I think everyone needs to take a step back and really think how we stop this.

More police patrols (armed and unarmed), barriers on bridges and all pathways will of course make it harder for terrorists and make the public feel safer but it isn’t going to stop the attacks one bit. They will just think of another method, and this cycle will continue.

Clearly, these physcopaths don't care what happens to them during or after an attack. They are clearly accepting the fact that they will most probably be killed during the attack or will be detained "for life" if not.

So, increased laws and penalties aren't going to help one bit.

We need to find something that we can action that would give them reason not to do it, and this is Family. If you get identified as an extremist or someone who has committed one of these attacks, then your family will be deported to their country of origin, if that country happens to be the UK, then they will be imprisoned for X amount of time, and will never receive the help of the state through benefits or anything else.

It's harsh, but it’s the 99.9999999% normal population or them, and its a very clear decision.

 

[deuse]

So the killers was known to the police. This backs it up that anyone on the police list should be rounded up asap.

 

[Rilot]

If you get identified as an extremist or someone who has committed one of these attacks, then your family will be deported to their country of origin, if that country happens to be the UK, then they will be imprisoned for X amount of time, and will never receive the help of the state through benefits or anything else.

Are your seriously advocating the detention of family members, even though they have done nothing wrong and broken no law? So, much like North Korea where family members are punished due to the actions of individuals.
Jees, I don't want to live in your country.

Suppose your own son fell off the wagon a bit and started harbouring extreme right-wing views. You would be happy to be detained because of that?

I'm really starting to become quite frightened by some of the views people are expressing. The curtailing of civil liberties without trial, imprisonment by association, and deportation without cause are a very slippery slope.

 

[scorza]

So the killers was known to the police.

Not sure about that, waiting for police confirmation. After Manchester lots of people said they'd reported the loser to the police for extremism, but that all turned out to be a load of taqqiya - turns out the only thing the police knew him for was low-level street crime.

 

[Above&Beyond]

While we are at it, might as well ban democracy...you know that small thing that allows a person to wear what they like without the fear of being persecuted.

For the record I'm not a fan of the burka, hate the things and think it does not fit into British society. But we live in a society that allows people to wear what they like.

That's not what democracy is. Unless you are saying France isn't democratic? The UK accepts the most extreme cultural aspect as the norm, like the burka, and then we wonder why cohesion is a problem.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I'm really starting to become quite frightened by some of the views people are expressing. The curtailing of civil liberties without trial, imprisonment by association, and deportation without cause are a very slippery slope.

Luckily I live in a lefty echo chamber so on my facebook there is nobody calling for mass deportation or culling of Muslims. But I know a few people who have a loud minority on theirs that are spewing some vile things.

 

[Felon]

We aren't going to appease them in case they blow themselves up. If they are so warped they think that's a rational response to the free press then lock them up.

But that's more of the same - we already do this, if someone is 'warped' and wants to blow themselves up - they get locked up, where it's possible to detect and intervene.

We can continue arming more police, having more terror threats, having more *stuff* in order to detect and react to this sort of problem, round everybody up - throw them into internment camps, deport them to their country of origin, Guantanamo bay 2, army on the streets, vehicle barriers on every bridge, a giant portcullis over Dover, license to use a VPN, etc, etc, etc, etc,

But I'm pretty sure, none of the above will solve the root cause, you'll still have an alienated, isolated 'us and them' mentality, and probably just the same if not more, terrorist attacks.

I honestly believe, no matter how uncomfortable it feels - we need to address the Elephant in the room, which is the endless saturation coverage of Islamic terrorism and ISIS, it generates a lot of pressure on the Islamic community, it helps nobody in any way at all - most of all, it allows ISIS's message to be communicated to everybody, surely this is only going to make the problem worse?

 

[Efour]

I'm really starting to become quite frightened by some of the views people are expressing. The curtailing of civil liberties without trial, imprisonment by association, and deportation without cause are a very slippery slope.

I think it's a lot of bravado and safety behind the screen.
Most of the people that talk like it couldn't organise a p up In a brewery.

 

[Freakbro]

Not sure about that, waiting for police confirmation. After Manchester lots of people said they'd reported the loser to the police for extremism, but that all turned out to be a load of taqqiya - turns out the only thing the police knew him for was low-level street crime.

You just can't help yourself spreading lies and fake news can you

MI5 and the security services have said he had been on their radar

 

[Ben3991]

Are your seriously advocating the detention of family members, even though they have done nothing wrong and broken no law? So, much like North Korea where family members are punished due to the actions of individuals.
Jees, I don't want to live in your country.

Suppose your own son fell off the wagon a bit and started harbouring extreme right-wing views. You would be happy to be detained because of that?

As I said, it’s extremely harsh, but it’s a them or us scenario.

Assuming a population of 70 Million, and that 0.0001% of this population are extremists, which is still far too many, then 7000 unfairly detained families to protect the remaining 69,993,000 families is I think a just thing to do. This is without assuming that this would stop a lot of the attacks. Hopefully with their families at risk, the attacks would stop = no unfairly detained families.

Note* I know 70 million population, does not equal 70millions families etc, but for ease of getting point across….

 

[Ayahuasca]

As I said, it’s extremely harsh, but it’s a them or us scenario.

Assuming a population of 70 Million, and that 0.0001% of this population are extremists, which is still far too many, then 7000 unfairly detained families to protect the remaining 69,993,000 families is I think a just thing to do. This is without assuming that this would stop a lot of the attacks. Hopefully with their families at risk, the attacks would stop = no unfairly detained families.

Note* I know 70 million population, does not equal 70millions families etc, but for ease of getting point across….

Please just stop, posts like this make people question whether you've even had an education.

 

[Felon]

As I said, it’s extremely harsh, but it’s a them or us scenario.

Assuming a population of 70 Million, and that 0.0001% of this population are extremists, which is still far too many, then 7000 unfairly detained families to protect the remaining 69,993,000 families is I think a just thing to do. This is without assuming that this would stop a lot of the attacks. Hopefully with their families at risk, the attacks would stop = no unfairly detained families.

Note* I know 70 million population, does not equal 70millions families etc, but for ease of getting point across….

Imagine being in the Islamic community, and seeing random people being rounded up and taken away by police vans, or disappearing, apparently for no reason at all, never to be seen again.

Now imagine how wonderful that would make them feel, I'm sure there'd be no more extremism whatsoever and all terrorism would be immediately solved........

 

[Above&Beyond]

But that's more of the same - we already do this, if someone is 'warped' and wants to blow themselves up - they get locked up, where it's possible to detect and intervene.

We can continue arming more police, having more terror threats, having more *stuff* in order to detect and react to this sort of problem, round everybody up - throw them into internment camps, deport them to their country of origin, Guantanamo bay 2, army on the streets, vehicle barriers on every bridge, a giant portcullis over Dover, license to use a VPN, etc, etc, etc, etc,

But I'm pretty sure, none of the above will solve the root cause, you'll still have an alienated, isolated 'us and them' mentality, and probably just the same if not more, terrorist attacks.

I honestly believe, no matter how uncomfortable it feels - we need to address the Elephant in the room, which is the endless saturation coverage of Islamic terrorism and ISIS, it generates a lot of pressure on the Islamic community, it helps nobody in any way at all - most of all, it allows ISIS's message to be communicated to everybody, surely this is only going to make the problem worse?

Islamic State don't care about the British press. They blow themselves up in Syria, Iraq and all throughout the world they aim to spread terror. What have the UK press got to do with that? The only way to stop them is killing their leaders, fighters and scholars in targeted attacks abroad and investigating and preventing attacks at home through good intelligence. There is no other way to appease them and we never should.

 

[Ben3991]

Imagine being in the Islamic community, and seeing random people being rounded up and taken away by police vans, or disappearing, apparently for no reason at all, never to be seen again.

Now imagine how wonderful that would make them feel, I'm sure there'd be no more extremism whatsoever and all terrorism would be immediately solved........

But's thats how the families of those that have been mowed down feel. They relatives were just going about their lives, and got killed for no reason at all. Again them or us......

Please just stop, posts like this make people question whether you've even had an education.

So what is your answer to stopping innocent people being killed by people that aren't bothered about dying themselves or spending the rest of their life in prison?

 

[robj20]

Please just stop, posts like this make people question whether you've even had an education.

How dare his opinion differ to your's. My opinion is that ther are a lot of hypocrites, if it happened to there family im sure they would be calling for blood but when its at arms length its different. Talking to these people just wont work. To be honest im not far off being okay with leveling the middle east, but thats just the anger speaking. I really hope the powers that be can start improving things soon though.

 

[hurfdurf]

Anyone calling for innocent civilians to be locked up need to stop being so cowardly. The Terrorists have won if we ever curtail to their tactics and sacrifice essential liberties to make us feel safer. I am more afraid of an authoritarian government than I am ISIS invaders.

 

[Felon]

Islamic State don't care about the British press. They blow themselves up in Syria, Iraq and all throughout the world they aim to spread terror. What have the UK press got to do with that? The only way to stop them is killing their leaders, fighters and scholars in targeted attacks abroad and investigating and preventing attacks at home through good intelligence. There is no other way to appease them and we never should.

Islamic state might not care about the British press - I'd probably agree with you on that, but you can bet your bottom dollar that the British press cares about Islamic state!

I'd also agree - there might not be a way to appease them, but surely a good middle ground is not to create so much pressure by stigmatising them so much, of course - I don't want to be all nice and lefty on them, it does feel uncomfortable, but which is worse? Having to have some difficult conversations and changes we make to our own society, specifically the press and media, or sending yet another forensics team to a pop concert to pick up chunks of children - then relying on more of the same, over and over and over again? - because that's where we're headed..

I'd just like to reiterate, I don't believe that the press is the root cause of the problem, warped Islamic terror is the root cause of the problem - but I think we need a way to stop the vicious circle, and I think curtailing the media is one of the most effective ways.

 

[hurfdurf]

How dare his opinion differ to your's. My opinion is that ther are a lot of hypocrites, if it happened to there family im sure they would be calling for blood but when its at arms length its different. Talking to these people just wont work. To be honest im not far off being okay with leveling the middle east.

Try leveling the middle east, see how far you get and what hits back once you've killed millions of innocent people, many of whom aren't even Muslim never mind Wahabi Extremeists.

 

[Ayahuasca]

So what is your answer to stopping innocent people being killed by people that aren't bothered about dying themselves or spending the rest of their life in prison?

Calling you out on nonsensical views doesn't equal me having the answers, you're entitled to voice your opinion but members are also entitled to call you out on it.

 

[Ayahuasca]

How dare his opinion differ to your's. My opinion is that ther are a lot of hypocrites, if it happened to there family im sure they would be calling for blood but when its at arms length its different. Talking to these people just wont work. To be honest im not far off being okay with leveling the middle east, but thats just the anger speaking. I really hope the powers that be can start improving things soon though.

Plenty of family members from these attacks over the years have spoke out, and I've not heard one of them call for innocent people to be attacked, killed or locked up for just being associated with the attacker.