London pollution & ULEZ

SPG · 31 Jul 2023 at 14:46

Its not cyclists though anymore is it. Its Scooters, e-bikes, E-Uni cycles (these are ********* awesome btw) So yes, every time we build something new it needs to have dedicated no car lanes that are maintained just as well as the roads (good luck with that) decent folk wont use them at the moment due to the yob culture associated with them.

Backward people in councils stuck with nothing better to do apart from live in the past.

bigmike20vt · 31 Jul 2023 at 14:49

SixTwoSix said:
I remember something in the 90's around the simple 'across the waist' seat belts in the back seats of cars causing some pretty bad abdominal injuries on severe breaking/impacts.

i think the point is that, whilst that may be true (in fact i accept that across the waist seatbelts are not great and indeed are they even allowed now?

but i think the point is, if the collision was severe enough to cause an injury due to the belt, then what would the injury be without any belt on at all? (ever remember the seatbelt advert with the woman and the car full of kids with pizzas?..... or iirc there was another one demonstrating the damage a person could do to either the driver or the front seat passenger if they were not wearing a belt.

bigmike20vt · 31 Jul 2023 at 14:56

fez said:
The reason cyclists feel like its "us vs them" is because the consequences are so much higher for people on bikes. Added to the fact that you might be a conscientious driver but far too many aren't and when you are passed too close by someone doing 60 or a tipper truck nearly sucks you under its wheels you might appreciate that its an emotive subject.

Also, go read any dailymail article with even a passing emphasis on cyclists and you will see the utter vitriol that cyclists deal with from drivers.

i think you could just say go read any daily mail article............ it doesnt matter the topic they always like to chum the water and get hate directed at someone.

I genuinely have no issue with cyclists... i used to be one...... but i do think you are mistaken if you believe the automatic response to any car driver from a cyclist isnt " blame the car driver."

there is a road near my parents house.... its a bad road which does not help but how i did not run over a cyclist to this day i will never know.... its a down hill section with a left hand bend then an uphill part with no street lights (its in the countryside). I went round the bend at night, to be confronted by a cyclist wobbling on the road , no lights and wearing black. i missed him somehow but he fell off his bike (he was wasted) I pulled over to make sure he was ok - i was shaken up as well - and the vitriol he gave me for almost hitting him....... if i had of hit him i dare say i would have gotten the blame.

technically it could just as easily been a pedestrian in black in the middle of the road....... and yes the burden is on the car driver to not hit people but really pedestrians and cyclists imo should not get a free pass either. if i go out at night in a car i have to have lights and be as visible as possible..

the same may technically be true of bikes but no one bothers to police it.

fez · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:04

jigger said:
But don’t punish cyclists at all? build mini roads to them to fight over?

I agree the standard of driving is not great and seems to be getting worse. Some people simply shouldn’t be allowed behind the wheel of a car. Same goes for people on bikes.

If a cyclist damages your car then they should pay for it to be fixed...

Same as if anyone damages something of yours. A cyclist has never as far as I know killed a driver or written off their car from doing something stupid and hitting it. There is a reason pedestrians and cyclists don't need insurance. I have nearly hit a number of pedestrians in the local town when they just walk out into the road. I have never thought "pedestrians need insurance".

bigmike20vt · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:08

fez said:
If a cyclist damages your car then they should pay for it to be fixed...

Same as if anyone damages something of yours. A cyclist has never as far as I know killed a driver or written off their car from doing something stupid and hitting it. There is a reason pedestrians and cyclists don't need insurance. I have nearly hit a number of pedestrians in the local town when they just walk out into the road. I have never thought "pedestrians need insurance".

good luck getting that to happen!.......
you make a fair point about pedestrians...... they SHOULD repair damage they cause as well but that wont happen either, however it is rare to see them walking on the road unless they have no other option and most residential roads have some pavement - not always i know.

bikes are a vehicle tho so slightly different to a pedestrian imo. (i also think horse riders should have to have insurance as well..... and i have seen the damage a horse can do to a car - thankfully the driver and rider were both ok, sadly not so much the horse)

fez · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:14

bigmike20vt said:
i think you could just say go read any daily mail article............ it doesnt matter the topic they always like to chum the water and get hate directed at someone.

Its not even close, i'm sorry but it isn't.

bigmike20vt said:
I genuinely have no issue with cyclists... i used to be one...... but i do think you are mistaken if you believe the automatic response to any car driver from a cyclist isnt " blame the car driver."

Thats because its almost always the drivers fault. When it isn't, most cyclists admit it. There was a video doing the rounds a week or two ago of a van driver in London going around a corner in a one way system and the road splits. The cyclist comes up the inside of the van and the van turns into him. Every cyclist has commented that it was the cyclists fault. The cyclist admits it was stupid. The signage could have been better but everyone agreed it was stupid from the cyclist.

bigmike20vt said:
there is a road near my parents house.... its a bad road which does not help but how i did not run over a cyclist to this day i will never know.... its a down hill section with a left hand bend then an uphill part with no street lights (its in the countryside). I went round the bend at night, to be confronted by a cyclist wobbling on the road , no lights and wearing black. i missed him somehow but he fell off his bike (he was wasted) I pulled over to make sure he was ok - i was shaken up as well - and the vitriol he gave me for almost hitting him....... if i had of hit him i dare say i would have gotten the blame.

I've seen loads of cyclists and pedestrians out and about when they are battered and thought "what a pillock". I've seen cyclists riding at night in borderline black outfits. It think "what a pillock". For every cyclist or pedestrian I see that is being a pillock I see 100 drivers doing stupid things. Those pedestrians and cyclists won't kill a car driver...

As to your guy, he was ****** as a skunk and would have shouted at anyone. Hes not a cyclist, hes a drunk idiot on a bike. You also wouldn't have got the blame and even if you would, nothing would have happened to you. When a cyclist is killed doing absolutely nothing wrong they still manage to shoehorn in whether they had high vis, lights, helmet etc. Like being hit from behind by someone speeding was their fault.

When I drive on the motorway at any sort of busy time I see probably about 10-20 dangerous things per hour. Probably far more. When I am in the passenger seat I will see at least 10 people we pass who are driving and on their phones.

fez · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:16

bigmike20vt said:
good luck getting that to happen!.......

It probably doesn't happen often because you are either dealing with an oik on a bike or because there is no damage.

bigmike20vt said:
you make a fair point about pedestrians...... they SHOULD repair damage they cause as well but that wont happen either, however it is rare to see them walking on the road unless they have no other option and most residential roads have some pavement - not always i know.

As for pedestrians. Go cycle in a town and tell me its rare to see them walking in the road. They saunter out all the time then shoot you daggers when you miss them by a few feet when you swerve. They are clearly just expecting to hear a car coming and if they don't then its fine.

jigger · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:17

bigmike20vt said:
i think you could just say go read any daily mail article............ it doesnt matter the topic they always like to chum the water and get hate directed at someone.

I genuinely have no issue with cyclists... i used to be one...... but i do think you are mistaken if you believe the automatic response to any car driver from a cyclist isnt " blame the car driver."

there is a road near my parents house.... its a bad road which does not help but how i did not run over a cyclist to this day i will never know.... its a down hill section with a left hand bend then an uphill part. I went round the bend at night, to be confronted by a cyclist wobbling on the road, no lights and wearing black. i missed him somehow but he fell off his bike (he was wasted) I pulled over to make sure he was ok - i was shaken up as well - and the vitriol he gave me for almost hitting him....... if i had of hit him i dare say i would have gotten the blame.

A chap rides past my house most nights (I think he works at a restaurant in the next town) He has an electric bike and rides in all weather with no lights. He has reflective tape on his wheels. Rides in black and the bike is black. I was picking up my daughter late one night and after joining a road which is very poorly lit I could just about make him out because of the flash tape. I have a set of bike lights I’m going to attempt to give him.

jigger · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:24

fez said:
If a cyclist damages your car then they should pay for it to be fixed...

Same as if anyone damages something of yours. A cyclist has never as far as I know killed a driver or written off their car from doing something stupid and hitting it. There is a reason pedestrians and cyclists don't need insurance. I have nearly hit a number of pedestrians in the local town when they just walk out into the road. I have never thought "pedestrians need insurance".

Many cyclists and pedestrians have been responsible for their own deaths. People should pay for damage to property IMO, some people feel differently though and that is impossible to remedy with the current situation.

As for drink riding. Chap that sometimes drinks in one of the local pubs uses a bike to get back and to. As far as I know riding a bike drunk or recklessly on the road is almost impossible to prosecute.

Uther · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:28

b0rn2sk8 said:
You can get a fully electric, battery owned Renault Zoe for under £4,500 now. What a bargain price for a second car which would cost next to nothing to run for those with somewhere to charge it (which is more than you think in London).

Yes, IF they can charge it at home I assume, then they can scrap their perfectly running old car and spend 4.5k on another one. In his other videos he's been quite scathing about the public charging infrastructure.

SixTwoSix · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:40

bigmike20vt said:
i think the point is that, whilst that may be true (in fact i accept that across the waist seatbelts are not great and indeed are they even allowed now?

but i think the point is, if the collision was severe enough to cause an injury due to the belt, then what would the injury be without any belt on at all? (ever remember the seatbelt advert with the woman and the car full of kids with pizzas?..... or iirc there was another one demonstrating the damage a person could do to either the driver or the front seat passenger if they were not wearing a belt.

Ah yeah. i'm not arguing against anything you've said, just mentioned it as there was some legitimate concerns around waist belts back then.

jigger · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:42

Uther said:
Yes, IF they can charge it at home I assume, then they can scrap their perfectly running old car and spend 4.5k on another one. In his other videos he's been quite scathing about the public charging infrastructure.

It’s pretty bad, especially in towns. Retail parks and industrial estates can be OK. I know of one car park at the rear of a town centre precinct with chargers that are all taken up with normal cars until the shops close. Total madness.

bigmike20vt · 31 Jul 2023 at 15:57

I am a bit of an EV fanboy but that is only because I can charge at home. I drove 245 miles to my parents house and it cost me about £12 in electricity.
IF I had an EV tarif and charged from that it would have been £7
but equally if you can't charge at home a d are relying fully on public charging that is a pretty hard sell imo. I certainly would not reccomend one blindly to someone without a driveway.

jigger · 31 Jul 2023 at 16:05

bigmike20vt said:
I am a bit of an EV fanboy but that is only because I can charge at home. I drove 245 miles to my parents house and it cost me about £12 in electricity.
IF I had an EV tarif and charged from that it would have been £7
but equally if you can't charge at home a d are relying fully on public charging that is a pretty hard sell imo. I certainly would not reccomend one blindly to someone without a driveway.

That’s some cheap motoring.

bigmike20vt · 31 Jul 2023 at 16:08

jigger said:
That’s some cheap motoring.

just don't ask how much the car cost

. (to get a car with the range I need you are still looking at a chunk of change)

jigger · 31 Jul 2023 at 16:12

bigmike20vt said:
just don't ask how much the car cost . (to get a car with the range I need you are still looking at a chunk of change)

Lol yeah, I have an i3s in the fleet and it’s one expensive fiesta.

dowie · 31 Jul 2023 at 16:48

Uther said:
Yes, IF they can charge it at home I assume, then they can scrap their perfectly running old car and spend 4.5k on another one. In his other videos he's been quite scathing about the public charging infrastructure.

It's not just electric cars though, I think plenty of petrol cars are fine for ULEZ too, if someone is driving a regular car that isn't then it's probably pretty old.

Uther · 31 Jul 2023 at 16:55

dowie said:
It's not just electric cars though, I think plenty of petrol cars are fine for ULEZ too, if someone is driving a regular car that isn't then it's probably pretty old.

This was in reply to the electric car for 4.5k post.

dowie · 31 Jul 2023 at 17:05

Uther said:
This was in reply to the electric car for 4.5k post.

I know, you quoted it and pointed out issues with charging. But this zone allows for petrol cars and the cars that aren't compliant are very old AFAIK (like over 18 years old), they ought to be able to find a compliant petrol car for a similar price AFAIK if charging is an issue.

delta0 · 31 Jul 2023 at 17:12

bigmike20vt said:
I am a bit of an EV fanboy but that is only because I can charge at home. I drove 245 miles to my parents house and it cost me about £12 in electricity.
IF I had an EV tarif and charged from that it would have been £7
but equally if you can't charge at home a d are relying fully on public charging that is a pretty hard sell imo. I certainly would not reccomend one blindly to someone without a driveway.

It’s crazy cheap on an EV tariff. It’s comparable to running a very efficient diesel when you are on the public chargers. It’s rare you ever need them but when you do it’s really not bad as the EV is so efficient.