London pollution & ULEZ

[jpaul]

Is a big old 2009 Merc a classic?

so how many days a week and miles/week will you drive in ULEZ ? £60/week £3K/year ?

if only we had the tech to monitor how far people drive in the ULEZ and charge them for the mileage ( I mean - I'd be prepared to accept a tracker )
My car is 200g/co2/km at current £50/tonne that's 5000Km/3000miles - for that type of pollutant anyway

----------------------

after reading guardian article on Uxbridge - keir's net zero secretary(couldn't make it up) Ed milliband

Miliband said Sunak had been “dragged kicking and screaming” to implement a windfall tax on oil and gas firms. The existing policy was like a “Swiss cheese” and “full of holes”, the Labour frontbencher claimed.

He called for the current rate, 75% of profits, to be upped to 78%, and criticised the so-called super-deduction that allows companies to reduce their payment if they invest in British energy projects, saying Labour would close the “loophole”.

rhetoric in overdrive , plus re-imagining of history - for a few percentdollars more - really

 

[CapitalOne]

so how many days a week and miles/week will you drive in ULEZ ? £60/week £3K/year ?

if only we had the tech to monitor how far people drive in the ULEZ and charge them for the mileage ( I mean - I'd be prepared to accept a tracker )
My car is 200g/co2/km at current £50/tonne that's 5000Km/3000miles - for that type of pollutant anyway

----------------------

after reading guardian article on Uxbridge - keir's net zero secretary(couldn't make it up) Ed milliband

rhetoric in overdrive , plus re-imagining of history - for a few percentdollars more - really

No difference, maybe 3 or 4 times a month max (all 5 miles plus and all from ULEZ to outside ULEZ). Totally worth it though because we only do 1500 miles a year so a newer “big fancy” car would cost about £50 a mile in our case, This one was paid for long ago and only has 60k miles and we still love it.

 

[loftie]

This is just one of the many reasons Starmer leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I honestly don't think Labour under Starmer would be much if any improvement over the current lot.

This is a man who does everything in his power to impose his will and ignore the members, the voice from the grass roots. With Starmer it's 100% his way or the highway, and has been since he gained the leadership. Starmeleon is not the promised land, I'm afraid. He's a deeply unlikeable dictator in waiting.

I think that's a massive understatement of just how bad the current lot are tbh. I'm still surprised that they haven't seriously said that the reason we have such an omnishables of a government is because the last labour government lost the election so it's actually all their fault. Vote conservative.

I was looking at Autotrader the other day and was amazed that a 2003 Yaris is ULEZ compliant. Or so they said.

Given that 90% of cars are compliant (don't think anyone has refuted this claim) it's hardly a war on motorists.

I seem to recall there being some discussion about the compliant numbers (from TFL IIRC) being fudged a bit. Whether that was indeed the case or not I'm not sure it was ever determined.

 

[bigmike20vt]

neither my 2011 "eco diesel" pug 308 (yeah I know!) nor our old 2012 nissan QQ 1.5 diesel were compliant.

and I was fine with that.... I am more than happy to accept they are not suitable for city cars (I regret ever buying the QQ, the pug was left to me in a will so no regret there)

we have replaced the QQ now with an EV so am compliant... and it's not like the old nissan has been scrapped. it is just being used somewhere where it won't need to go into built up cities.

is there a. touch of NIMBY about that? perhaps but there is an argument for some vehicles which still have useful life in them staying on the road as the worst of their environmental damage has already been done but at the same time keeping them out of densely populated areas.

we will be keeping our pug for the foreseeable but it won't be going near ULEZ areas

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The ULEZ isn’t really about environmental damage like CO2, it’s all about air quality.

Poor air quality is one of the leading contributing factors in premature death. It also causes kids to develop conditions like asthma that otherwise wouldn’t ordinarily develop it if they lived out in the sticks where the air is better.

 

[jpaul]

( & considering the other pollutants I mentioned )
- and what causes premature death ? nox - so my euro4 petrol is only 1/3 more than euro5 ... so let's tax based on miles in ulez

Prof. Roy Harrison FRS, Professor of Environmental Health, University of Birmingham, said:
Our recent studies in London and Paris demonstrate that the nitrogen dioxide, deriving predominantly from diesels now has a far greater impact on premature mortality than particle emissions from road traffic. This further emphasises the need for motor manufacturers to focus their efforts on reducing oxides of nitrogen emissions from diesels.”

Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)
CO – 1.0 g/km
HC – 0.10 g/km
NOx – 0.08
PM – no limit
Euro 4 emission limits (diesel)
CO – 0.50 g/km
HC+ NOx – 0.30 g/km
NOx – 0.25 g/km
PM – 0.025 g/km

Euro 5 emission limits (petrol)
CO – 1.0 g/km
HC - 0.10 g/km
NOx – 0.06 g/km
PM – 0.005 g/km (direct injection only)
Euro 5 emission limits (diesel)
CO – 0.50 g/km
HC+ NOx – 0.23 g/km
NOx – 0.18 g/km
PM – 0.005 g/km
PM – 6.0x10 ^11/km

LOL BIKitus

• New car market up 28.3% in July to record full year of non-stop growth.
• One battery electric car registered every 60 seconds as deliveries surge 87.9%.
• New market outlook expects one new BEV registered every 50 seconds by year end, rising to one every 40 in 2024, as industry calls for chargepoint mandate to accelerate uptake

In June, 24,953 new EVs were supplied to business and fleet buyers, while just 6,747 were sold to private drivers.

 

[jonneymendoza]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJwAlT7kdA&t=69s

 

[bigmike20vt]

The ULEZ isn’t really about environmental damage like CO2, it’s all about air quality.

Poor air quality is one of the leading contributing factors in premature death. It also causes kids to develop conditions like asthma that otherwise wouldn’t ordinarily develop it if they lived out in the sticks where the air is better.

for sure but the 2 are linked.... on one hand you don't want old dirty diesels polluting the air in cities.

on the other hand it can be considered an own goal to scrap cars which are otherwise fully functional in places where the air quality is less likely to tank with a few older cars knocking about because building new cars to replace them does have an environmental impact.

imo whilst we are in a transitional period it's about makeing the best use of the resources we have before they wear out.

 

[Tony Edwards]

on the other hand it can be considered an own goal to scrap cars which are otherwise fully functional in places where the air quality is less likely to tank with a few older cars knocking about because building new cars to replace them does have an environmental impact.

imo whilst we are in a transitional period it's about makeing the best use of the resources we have before they wear out.

But the scrapage scheme encourages people to get rid of more poluting cars. If they sold those on they just push the issue else were.

You would just get somewhere like Milton Keynes full of non Ulez complient cars poluting the good city.

 

[Hades]

You would just get somewhere like Milton Keynes full of non Ulez complient cars poluting the good city.

Most people wouldn't sell them on. A few woould, but they would have done that anyway regardless of ULEZ.

Most people would keep using them for many years. Instead they are encouraged to buy a new car causing significant environmental impact. If they buy a newer, but still used, car instead it still encourages the person at the top of the chain to buy a new vehicle.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Most people wouldn't sell them on. A few woould, but they would have done that anyway regardless of ULEZ.

Most people would keep using them for many years. Instead they are encouraged to buy a new car causing significant environmental impact. If they buy a newer, but still used, car instead it still encourages the person at the top of the chain to buy a new vehicle.

Well if your car is only worth £1200 and you are being offered £2200 for your car to scrap it, its a no brainer. Car gone for good.

 

[Hagar]

It's reverse osmosis, China are buying them to turn into baked bean tins.

 

[SPG]

The ULEZ isn’t really about environmental damage like CO2, it’s all about air quality.

Poor air quality is one of the leading contributing factors in premature death. It also causes kids to develop conditions like asthma that otherwise wouldn’t ordinarily develop it if they lived out in the sticks where the air is better.

So is lack of fruit and vegetables and a proper diet but they are not targeting that one are they.....

 

[Freakbro]

So is lack of fruit and vegetables and a proper diet but they are not targeting that one are they.....

Yes?

There have been and are lots of campaigns about healthy eating and exercise

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Jamie Olivier might have something to say about that….

 

[Freakbro]

My partner has been running the Govt funded HAF clubs over the half terms and summer holidays (which were set up after Marcus Rashford shamed them into doing something)

The HAF programme is designed to ensure a high-quality experience for children that will result in receiving healthy and nutritious meals and maintaining a healthy level of physical activity. Children who attend HAF develop a greater understanding of food, nutrition and other health-related issues and have the opportunity to take part in fun and engaging activities.

 

[bigmike20vt]

But the scrapage scheme encourages people to get rid of more poluting cars. If they sold those on they just push the issue else were.

You would just get somewhere like Milton Keynes full of non Ulez complient cars poluting the good city.

there will always be out liers and I am not claiming anything is perfect here .. . but on average *most* cars worth less than what is offered on scrappage scheme will tend to be the worst of the old bangers. yes there will be some really well maintained cars which as not too bad which fall victim. OTOH there will likely be some poorly looked after compliant cars which are far worse polluting than what their book suggests which get to carry on.

but for the most part , assuming it's weighted properly, the scrappage scheme should get the worst cars off the road, keep the cleaner ones operating where ever and those in between will keep running a bit longer albeit mostly outside of ULEZ zones.
I don't think it's ideal, but neither is just making more new cars........ yes ideally everyone would cycle or walk/jog/run for all journeys under 5 miles....... shopping would all be done online delivered by EV vans (done in zones at set times to maximise effiency)

but that ain't gonna happen. the job of a government ideally imo regardless of the colour of their pants should be working out what is the best for the country / planet , working out what the people want and then trying to balance the 2 as much as possible.

most of us are not going to be prepared to go back to pre industrial age living but compromises need to be made or I truly believe our kids or our grand kids generation are buggered.

 

[Diddums]

So is lack of fruit and vegetables and a proper diet but they are not targeting that one are they.....

Sugar tax innit. Less burden on the NHS so they can pilfer that, and make people pay for the privilege.

Our entire political elite need to be sacked off and started again with a clean slate.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Has anyone been to the continent recently? There are ULEZ zones all over the place and there is no £12.50 fee to use your polluting vehicle.

Under their rules you can’t use it full stop, no ifs, no buts.

 

[Diddums]

Has anyone been to the continent recently? There are ULEZ zones all over the place and there is no £12.50 fee to use your polluting vehicle.

Under their rules you can’t use it full stop, no ifs, no buts.

Their public transport systems don't cost £lol and aren't constantly on strike though.

I was looking at going to Prague the other day and saw that a 24h travel pass is something like £4.

Bus, metro, trains, trams, the lot.

£4. And they don't strike.