Most roadsigns are in the Highway Code and it is a requirement for drivers to keep up to date with new signs and instructoins in it. For a sign that isn't in the Highway Code it must be made clear that a charge is being levied. With neither of these criteria being met the sign could mean anything. While I suspect most people know what LEZ and ULEZ are, from a legal standpoint it can't be confirmed that the driver has been adequately informed that driving past those four letters means they must pay a charge.This seems daft, does that mean every roadsign that you could be issued a charge by breaking isn't valid? What about speed signs?
London pollution & ULEZ
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
Which is why there is strong evidence that TFL are planning "pay-per-mile" road charging, despite statements to the contrary by the Mayor.
You can’t really do a pay per mile system with fixed position cameras. At best is what you get is a system of toll gates.
I’m sure TfL are considering all options, that’s their job. But until politicians set out a new policy and have a vote on it, it’s just pie in the sky thinking.
I’m sure HMRC and the Treasury are dreaming up all different kinds of ways they could tax you more by the back door, that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
Having lived in London since 2006, I can simplify the government's / council's reasoning down to one very simple formula
If proposition = money, print then yes
Simple as that. They'll hide it behind environmental, safety, noise pollution, anything they can get away with, but if it'll make them money, it's only a matter of time. You can resist, you can create petitions, you can lie in the road - it doesn't matter. It'll get shoved down your throat whether you like it or not. I never realised quite how bad it is until I started doing some research in to moving abroad - England's political system is so self-serving it's unreal. They literally do not care about anything other than their bottom line.
Given how absolutely ****** this country is I can't see it being much longer before we emigrate.
If proposition = money, print then yes
Simple as that. They'll hide it behind environmental, safety, noise pollution, anything they can get away with, but if it'll make them money, it's only a matter of time. You can resist, you can create petitions, you can lie in the road - it doesn't matter. It'll get shoved down your throat whether you like it or not. I never realised quite how bad it is until I started doing some research in to moving abroad - England's political system is so self-serving it's unreal. They literally do not care about anything other than their bottom line.
Given how absolutely ****** this country is I can't see it being much longer before we emigrate.
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What other options are there? Fuel duty doesn't apply to EV's. VED is low for EV's. EV's won't have to pay LEZ or ULEZ. The only options seem to be:
1) Increase VED on EV's drastically. This would have to be such a huge rise that it's simply not viable.
2) Force a specific charging method at home and tax electricity used for charging. There will be ways around this.
3) Pay per mile, with the added political benefit of saving children by reducing tyre, brake pollution and reducing the number of dangerous trips where someone could get hurt.
That last option is going to happen. Option two might do as well.
What will London become when there's no cars, no shops and all the sensible people seeing London for what it is, leave?
What really is the ultimate aim of the rich and powerful for London? If was a writer I'd pen a story about London becoming the biggest walled garden in the world for the wealthy.
What really is the ultimate aim of the rich and powerful for London? If was a writer I'd pen a story about London becoming the biggest walled garden in the world for the wealthy.
You’d ‘only’ need to add about £700 ved to the average car. Probably not even that given the amount of fuel things like lorries consume.
Call it £400 for a £20k fiesta and £1,500 for a £100k Range Rover.
Collect it monthly via direct debit.
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Oh wow that's dumb. They've got the congestion charge in there but they've not added ULEZ (or LEZ) which considering, IIRC, the government wanted it to be rolled out in a few cities it seems like a massive oversight.
It may not be as bad as the Pea Soup between late 18th century and early 20th century, but just because it's not visible or as bad does not mean the poor air quality should just be accepted as is.
I suspect it will quickly appear in there now. It's cheaper to update the HC than to replace hundreds of signs.Oh wow that's dumb. They've got the congestion charge in there but they've not added ULEZ (or LEZ) which considering, IIRC, the government wanted it to be rolled out in a few cities it seems like a massive oversight.
Soldato
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Which with every budget and inflation is getting less and less as they refuse to up the duty. Motorist is king and the right to drive whatever gas guzzling pollution chugging lump being absolutely paramount to Rishi (add in pump out yet more oil and pollute even more rivers). At least while theres still votes to be had in it. Its absolutely shameless.
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I disagree, but sort of agree: I think you have it at one remove. I think it's the economy that's king and the motor vehicle is - quite literally - the engine of the economy. Goods get transported by motor vehicle, tradespeople and salesmen and tourists and shoppers and whoever all use motor vehicles. Our economy absolutely depends upon the motor vehicle.
You are kidding yourself if you think EVs are going to escape ULEZ charges, road tax etc after 2030. Once most people own one and it's to late to go back, they will slap them with loads of tax. Probably a lot more road tax than now to make up for the loss in fuel duty.
Of course they won't - they'll use the money saved by the NHS from the fewer hospitalisations to fund their cake holes. /s
Caporegime
Oh course they are going to work out how to tax EV ownership. Its unsurprisingly not the criminal enterprise some of you seem to be suggesting as well. Fuel duty and VED brings in a lot of money which will have to be replaced somehow unless of course you don't want the roads to be maintained or the country to function.
Not everything is a conspiracy to defraud you of your hard earned pennies. Sometimes, the country needs money for luxuries like roads.
Not everything is a conspiracy to defraud you of your hard earned pennies. Sometimes, the country needs money for luxuries like roads.
I understand what they are trying to do, I always find the air in London to awful every time I visit. People’s health would improve overtime.
My concerns are for those on low incomes who can’t afford to switch car, with the cost of living at the moment. Seems like they are being punished for just living in London.
My concerns are for those on low incomes who can’t afford to switch car, with the cost of living at the moment. Seems like they are being punished for just living in London.
What makes you think it's mostly motivated by money given they're only targeting a small % of vehicles, the aim is to reduce journeys by those and they've got a scrappage scheme which not only costs money but will seek to reduce the revenue they'll get from the ULEZ.
Also which country made you think that re: politicians/officials? The UK isn't perfect but it's pretty good globally, you've perhaps got Scandinavia, New Zealand, Switzerland and Singapore if you want a significant jump in standards.
We're not too different from the likes of France and Germany in that respect re: our officials and generally we're significantly better than places like Spain and Italy.
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Associate
I was out for a couple of beers after a hard day but the above and your previous deflection"It may or may not be an exaggeration..." has dragged me back in. Khan has lied that there are the 4000 deaths a year. Fact. You cant sell policy to the public on lies. When you start to allowing government to lie without any checks or excuse their "misspeaks" you end up where we have been for the past 3 years or allow wars to happen with Blairs 45 mins BS. I cant get my head around why people give politicians a free pass when they lie.