Macs price tag... why?

[fail at the internets]

If you don't understand what I posted (twice in fact) then you simply don't understand economics. Why would people buy , say, an Audi A4 when a Mondeo is cheaper? Maybe because the Audi is better designed, better looking and better built so deserves the higher price. The Audi is not overpriced nor is it cheap just like an Apple computer.

Anyway, as has already been said similar spec'd PCs especially laptops (same weight, features, battery life etc) aren't much cheaper than a Mac.

One thinks you are trolling...



I have no need for serial or parallel ports (EDIT or HDMI or eSata as you mention) and although Apple can be a bit tight on the port count for some people (not me) they are at least all neatly in one place rather than scattered seemingly at random.

But a mac has worse part than most pc's for the same price I'm sure people would buy a computer/car with the best parts/value for money. Therefore macs are overpriced since you can get the hardware yourself for much cheeper.

 

[syke]

Why are you in the Apple section, slagging them off?

Why do you buy designer clothes?

Why do you buy designer aftershave?

Same story.

Apple are built VERY well, VERY nice machines, OS X is MUCH better than Windows, fact.

This coming from someone who used Windows till about 2 weeks ago.

 

[craptakular]

But a mac has worse part than most pc's for the same price I'm sure people would buy a computer/car with the best parts/value for money. Therefore macs are overpriced since you can get the hardware yourself for much cheeper.

By "worst parts" do you mean not triple SLI'd 9800GTX x 2 or whatever the kids have these days?

 

[LordSplodge]

But a mac has worse part than most pc's for the same price I'm sure people would buy a computer/car with the best parts/value for money. Therefore macs are overpriced since you can get the hardware yourself for much cheeper.

You are still failing to grasp economics though, aren't you?

Tell me what PC laptop you can get that compares to a MacBook Pro?

 

[Chimerical]

I think the extremes from both sides (PC & Mac) of the arguments are ridiculous.

I own a Mac Pro. Yes, it’s expensive, but it is built with Server Grade hardware, it has a three year warranty, it works without hassle or worry and if it breaks, Apple has an obligation to fix it.

With PCs (Custom or otherwise) you're not guaranteed amazing customer service where ever you go, pre-built systems (like Dell's) come with software bloat, Vista is OTT, slow and irritating, PCs never run how they're supposed to run and are always inefficient. The mainstream PC customers are patronized by stupid adverts selling them kit that they don't need. PCs are rendered out-of-date far too often, new components have far too high launch prices and spending thousands of pounds on a PC to play Crysis is pointless.

Having said that though, Apple annoys me via their obsession with the iPhone, which to me personally, is the biggest waste of space I've ever seen. It does nothing, repeat nothing, different to other high-end phones. It requires that you buy it with a contract, its flimsy, has no quick ease of use in the way that a simple phone with Buttons has and is mostly used by people who care about their social status and image. No-one in business would go near an iPhone.

Apple should concentrate on Mac's because thats where their most loyal customers are. Having said that, there aren't so much notable flwas with Macs themselves.

With regards to PCs as well, Microsoft XP is The de-facto standard OS for businesses worldwide. Microsoft has around 90% of market share with its OSes and Apple has around 10%. Vista is shoddy and runs slow, but that's because it has to be coded for an infinite number of configurations, drivers, components, etc. Apple doesn't have this worry but neither do they have the huge profit margins that Microsoft enjoys.

Fact is, there are pro's and con's for each side and each company. At the end of the day, PCs and Mac's have to be different because that’s the nature of competition. it'd be pointless and boring if Macs turned into Blue LED Gaming Computers and if PCs became sleek but boring.

I’m sure you’ll all find flaws in this summary and disagree with most of it (specially about the iPhone) but its just what I think.

 

[Tunney]

The main problem is Apple's silly $:£ conversion. Why is the Apple TV $229 or £199?

The best place to pick up Apple gear is at airports. 17.5% everything and ****** let you pre-order stuff for pick up.

Please read the rules regarding competitors

 

[itsallaboutyou]

I have no need for serial or parallel ports (EDIT or HDMI or eSata as you mention) and although Apple can be a bit tight on the port count for some people (not me) they are at least all neatly in one place rather than scattered seemingly at random.

I have to agree... my macbook has two usb ports and the only usb devices I own are my camera and a small external hard disk..

Time capsule handles all my backups, file server issues and my printer is wireless..

When I use my macbook with an external display, my keyboard and mouse are both wireless...

I dont need millions of ports...

 

[colinuk]

Ive used both Macs and PC's for photowork. True, years ago the macs ahd better graphics and were more stable. Now, when i needed to upgrade to a better machine i looked at the mac notebooks, and the specs, then i looked at the DELL XPS, the dell was more than capable at holding its own V a mac and was 1/2 the price??? i took my mates Dell XPS to a mac shop and put it along side the mac and ran them head to head, the mac didnt do anything the dell couldnt do and both were almost identical in speeds...

As for the OS - get XP pro with SP2 on it, you shouldnt have any issues as long as you keep it updated, not much to ask.

Over all, for me now, i have switched from Mac to PC. PC's are cheaper, run as fast, have lots more options and do as well as a mac for graphics. So unless its the look of the laptop/desktop you like i cant really see how you can argue getting a mac now...

Just my view of course, im sure the mac people will put up their points of views too

<ColiN>

 

[colinuk]

SNIP

QUOTE]


Agreed, what i tried to say...

<ColiN>

 

[itsallaboutyou]

I think the extremes from both sides (PC & Mac) of the arguments are ridiculous.

I own a Mac Pro. Yes, it’s expensive, but it is built with Server Grade hardware, it has a three year warranty, it works without hassle or worry and if it breaks, Apple has an obligation to fix it.

With PCs (Custom or otherwise) you're not guaranteed amazing customer service where ever you go, pre-built systems (like Dell's) come with software bloat, Vista is OTT, slow and irritating, PCs never run how they're supposed to run and are always inefficient. The mainstream PC customers are patronized by stupid adverts selling them kit that they don't need. PCs are rendered out-of-date far too often, new components have far too high launch prices and spending thousands of pounds on a PC to play Crysis is pointless.

Having said that though, Apple annoys me via their obsession with the iPhone, which to me personally, is the biggest waste of space I've ever seen. It does nothing, repeat nothing, different to other high-end phones. It requires that you buy it with a contract, its flimsy, has no quick ease of use in the way that a simple phone with Buttons has and is mostly used by people who care about their social status and image. No-one in business would go near an iPhone.

Apple should concentrate on Mac's because thats where their most loyal customers are. Having said that, there aren't so much notable flwas with Macs themselves.

With regards to PCs as well, Microsoft XP is The de-facto standard OS for businesses worldwide. Microsoft has around 90% of market share with its OSes and Apple has around 10%. Vista is shoddy and runs slow, but that's because it has to be coded for an infinite number of configurations, drivers, components, etc. Apple doesn't have this worry but neither do they have the huge profit margins that Microsoft enjoys.

Fact is, there are pro's and con's for each side and each company. At the end of the day, PCs and Mac's have to be different because that’s the nature of competition. it'd be pointless and boring if Macs turned into Blue LED Gaming Computers and if PCs became sleek but boring.

I’m sure you’ll all find flaws in this summary and disagree with most of it (specially about the iPhone) but its just what I think.

You raise some really interesting points and I take them on board... You have the benefits of being both a Mac and PC User (if I read that correctly!?) which puts you in a good position to comment.

However, I would disagree with the comments about Apple not being business orientated - mainly because thats just what Steve has announced - the iPhone is now being geared for greater compatibility with Office 2007, exchanges etc - which is a good thing..

Its also important not to forget that apple was failing pre 1997... its taken just over 10 years of hard graft - not to mention some cracking industrial design - to enable them to bounce back. But they are now, more than ever, one of the most recognisable brands in the world with a loyal customer base and turnover to boot..

Yes, you're right Apple software only has to run on Apple Hardware (hackintosh aside) and that instantly makes it easier for the engineers.. whereas windows has to cater for literally millions of combinations and I dont envy their task - but I just prefer the os x way of thinking, and I can say it 'til I'm blue in the face!

I'm probably talking carp there - but I hope a little bit made sense!

 

[Red Porsche]

But a mac has worse part than most pc's for the same price I'm sure people would buy a computer/car with the best parts/value for money. Therefore macs are overpriced since you can get the hardware yourself for much cheeper.

Yeah you pay a lot for the complete package but macs are better optimized than pc's the windows code hasnt been changed an awful lot in a while.

As someone else has said the hdd doesnt need formatting every 6 months.

OSX doesnt experience slow downs as bad as pc's.

 

[clv101]

What's the student discount on a MPB these days?

 

[Chimerical]

You raise some really interesting points and I take them on board... You have the benefits of being both a Mac and PC User (if I read that correctly!?) which puts you in a good position to comment.

However, I would disagree with the comments about Apple not being business orientated - mainly because thats just what Steve has announced - the iPhone is now being geared for greater compatibility with Office 2007, exchanges etc - which is a good thing..

Its also important not to forget that apple was failing pre 1997... its taken just over 10 years of hard graft - not to mention some cracking industrial design - to enable them to bounce back. But they are now, more than ever, one of the most recognisable brands in the world with a loyal customer base and turnover to boot..

Yes, you're right Apple software only has to run on Apple Hardware (hackintosh aside) and that instantly makes it easier for the engineers.. whereas windows has to cater for literally millions of combinations and I dont envy their task - but I just prefer the os x way of thinking, and I can say it 'til I'm blue in the face!

I'm probably talking carp there - but I hope a little bit made sense!

Yeah, I am a PC user as well (hard to imagine not being one).

I agree that Macs are invaluble to certain business areas. I've just spent £365 on Adobe CS3 Master Collection for my Mac because its there to be a dedicated editing machine.

The BBC exclusively uses Macs for their post production work and Macs are established as being excellent tools for creative work.

Also, I accept the iPhone is very lucrative for developers and that its sold an impressive amount of units (6 million). But its not OSX I have a problem with atm, its just Apple and their bias towards the iPhone.

They should have updated the technology and prices for the Apple Cinema Displays before the recent WWDC but instead it was just one giant plug for the iPhone.

Mainstream devices like the iPhone are (so far) predominantly sold to people as gadgets, items that have no further use than entertainment. This is irritating because Apple are Not a phone company. I don't care how much money they do make out of it if they are just going to ignore their more important business pathways.

 

[LordSplodge]

As for the OS - get XP pro with SP2 on it, you shouldnt have any issues as long as you keep it updated, not much to ask.

I disagree. I work with XP clients and the seemingly random niggles you get cannot be removed even if you keep the machines up-to-date. This is probably because the computers it is running on a cheap boxes with cheap hardware that varies from machine to machine. Apple kit runs on pretty much the same hardware across the board apart from CPU speed bumps and GPU changes, combine this with the stability of UNIX and Windows won't even get close. I only reboot my Mac when a system update requires me to do so. So it has been in use for months at a time without any slow down or crashes...

Just my view of course, im sure the mac people will put up their points of views too

<ColiN>

/checks forum.

I should think you'll get the Mac peoples views too...

 

[LordSplodge]

They should have updated the technology and prices for the Apple Cinema Displays before the recent WWDC but instead it was just one giant plug for the iPhone.

.

There will be lots of stuff behind the scenes in the after dinner sessions at the WWDC that we won't hear of for a while as they are under heavy NDA, Snow Leopard being one of them. Also, given the previous announcement of the App Store, 2.0 Firmware and Enterprise support what did you expect from this WWDC?

The cool Mac stuff will be announced at MacWorld.

 

[fail at the internets]

I disagree. I work with XP clients and the seemingly random niggles you get cannot be removed even if you keep the machines up-to-date. This is probably because the computers it is running on a cheap boxes with cheap hardware that varies from machine to machine. Apple kit runs on pretty much the same hardware across the board apart from CPU speed bumps and GPU changes, combine this with the stability of UNIX and Windows won't even get close. I only reboot my Mac when a system update requires me to do so. So it has been in use for months at a time without any slow down or crashes...

Yawn.

 

[clv101]

I only reboot my Mac when a system update requires me to do so. So it has been in use for months at a time without any slow down or crashes...

That's a big difference with Macs, they very rarely crash or need rebooting for anything other than OS updates. My Macbook will go weeks between reboots. I just open the lid, use, close the lid it sleeps. If when sleeping it runs out of power it hibernates itself so it can be resumed just as you were days later. I've never used a Windows laptop that's anywhere near as robust.

 

[VaderDSL]

Yawn.

Why are you still trolling in here?

I was a die hard Windows 95/98/me/XP/Vista user for years, then I got a Macbook Pro.

Both systems have many wonderful features and uses. I use my custom built PC for games and to tinker with as I like doing it, yes Vista annoys the heck out of me even tweaked. But I still love the fact I can play games.

I am so much more productive however on my Macbook pro, I have all my music, documents, photos, emails etc. on it and take it places and to be fair OS X is so much more stable than Vista, I can't leave Vista on for weeks at a time, not only due to its inherent way of going a bit loopy everynow and again the power requirements would be quite high.
My macbook pro however never gets turned off, I too only restart when there are software updates, when I'm in bed I browse and then close the lid when I go to sleep. When I wake up open the lid and I'm back browsing in a couple of seconds.

My macbook Pro has cost less overall than my PC (£1200 for the macbook pro a year and a half ago with some extra gubbins) and my PC over the same length of time has cost me about £1500 - £1600 due to upgrades/software/OS'/ etc.

Personally I couldn't live without either machine and if I had to give one up I would give up the PC, least I could play Eve/Defcon etc on my MBP still

 

[itsallaboutyou]

They should have updated the technology and prices for the Apple Cinema Displays before the recent WWDC but instead it was just one giant plug for the iPhone.

Mainstream devices like the iPhone are (so far) predominantly sold to people as gadgets, items that have no further use than entertainment. This is irritating because Apple are Not a phone company. I don't care how much money they do make out of it if they are just going to ignore their more important business pathways.

I agree - I would have liked a spec bump on the MBP's and the Cinema Displays are long overdue an overhaul - but as stated above - all the really kewl stuff gets announced at MacWorld - which next year will hopefully be filled with all kinds of goodies...

As for your second point, I whole heartedly agree - everybody wants the latest gadget - but its not like a one trick pony where there is limited appeal. The cellphone (sorry to sound american) industry worldwide, just like the computer industry is constantly changing and new tech comes out all the time - which means pretty much as soon as you buy something its obsolete!

I think the fact the so many iPhone V1's are selling well - AFTER the 3g version has been announced is due to the fact that they really are a fantastic piece of kit. Not to mention that people know where they stand with them. They've been out a suitable length of time for people to highlight pros and cons - ie MMS (which is a no brainer for me, as I've probably sent 1 mms in my entire life!) - but apple is always looking forwards and I can see a time in the not too distance future - where mms is no longer used...

Some people dispute claims, like revolutionary, visionary - but thats what the iPhone is, in terms of a consumer product.. I dont pretend to know an awful lot about mobile phones - but I know that my blackberry (the only thing I can compare it to!) does exchange support much better than logging onto webmail on the iPhone (which I currently do)

But.. if I'm sent a link on the blackberry - I'm screwed - whereas the iPhone renders it perfectly (except for flash obv!)

Ah - I dunno - maybe I'm just an Apple evangelist - but I think it boils down to the fact that I don't mind paying a premium for quality...

Good points though!

 

[LordSplodge]

Yawn.

Oh come on at least try to argue your point. See above and at least two other posters agree with me. If you aren't interested in using or getting a Mac can you please go back to the PC forums?

If when sleeping it runs out of power it hibernates itself so it can be resumed just as you were days later. I've never used a Windows laptop that's anywhere near as robust.

Safe Sleep is ace. Even if it runs out of power whilst you are using it it will sit there until it has power and wakes up again instantly. That alone is worth the price of entry. I don't mind using PCs (I use one at work and one at home) but you are right they are nowhere near as robust and reliable.

Why are you still trolling in here?

My macbook Pro has cost less overall than my PC

Personally I couldn't live without either machine and if I had to give one up I would give up the PC, least I could play Eve/Defcon etc on my MBP still

Because he has some agenda about the "overpriced" nature of Macs?

macs have a better ROI (Return on Investment) as they tend to last a lot longer between refreshes.

I certainley can live without a PC at home and will be PC free in the near future, but I do game on consoles. I do, however, have no issue with using a PC to get a job done. Right tool for the right job after all!