Macs price tag... why?

[TheVoice]

Yeah you pay a lot for the complete package but macs are better optimized than pc's the windows code hasnt been changed an awful lot in a while.

Vista changed plenty, so it's been revised fairly recently really.

As someone else has said the hdd doesnt need formatting every 6 months.

Neither does a Windows machine, generally. In the same amount of time that I've had my Vista installation, my housemate has had to wipe his iMac twice because he was unhappy with the speed/stability of his system. Fact is, such things can happen to both, so it's no good passing generalisations about how "slow and bloated" Vista is when it blatantly isn't always true.

 

[LordSplodge]

Vista changed plenty, so it's been revised fairly recently really.



Neither does a Windows machine, generally. In the same amount of time that I've had my Vista installation, my housemate has had to wipe his iMac twice because he was unhappy with the speed/stability of his system. Fact is, such things can happen to both, so it's no good passing generalisations about how "slow and bloated" Vista is when it blatantly isn't always true.

Vista still contains a load of bloated legacy code. Microsoft promised us it would be completely re-written from the ground up. It wasn't. OS X runs very well on older hardware, hell Leopard runs fine on a G4, try running Vista on an early P4/3

You are correct that passing generalisations are bad it is a lot rarer for a Mac user to have problems with the operating system. I experienced problems with a 10.5 install but that was fixed by doing a clean install rather than an upgrade and remember that 10.5.0 was one of the most buggy releases of OS X in recent history.

Vista is bloated though...

 

[TheVoice]

Vista is bloated though...

Given that OSX installs many GBs of drivers and language files you don't really need, it probably counts as bloated too.

I suppose the difference is that, with Apple's product range being far smaller anyway, they can and do enable their OS to run well on older machines, because if they didn't, they'd alienate their customer base. MS have no reason to make Vista run on older hardware. It'eas easier for everyone if the consumer just buys a new system, rather than dealing with Upgrade Installs, drivers etc. Sad situation, but it's inevitable given the nature of the PC market.

 

[itsallaboutyou]

Right tool for the right job after all!

That be the crux of the issue*

*say like a pirate for full effect

I only use a pc in work because the software I use is not available for mac os - and even though I can see the advantages in bootcamp - on my own machine I refuse to - out of principle!

I have just wangled a new MBP out of work - which is a shock as we've been exclusively dell for years and years.... maybe there's a change a brewing...

Doubt it though!

 

[hyper_piper45]

It is a common misconception that they are overpriced. If you try and compare similar spec machines in the same area the prices are very similar.

For example the cheapest Dell XPS One is £999 compared to the cheapest iMac which is £799. The iMac is actually a better spec and cheaper. (and better looking in my opinion)

Also Macs hold their value so much more so you can recoup much more of the cost down the line. They also last longer. I know people who have 4-5 year old Mac laptops which are still quick whereas nearly everyone i know who owns a windows laptop is slow as hell after a few months let alone year.

 

[TheVoice]

It is a common misconception that they are overpriced. If you try and compare similar spec machines in the same area the prices are very similar.

For example the cheapest Dell XPS One is £999 compared to the cheapest iMac which is £799. The iMac is actually a better spec and cheaper. (and better looking in my opinion)

The iMac isn't entirely a better spec though, in fairness. The iMac has a faster CPU and a better graphics chipset, but the XPS One also has twice as much RAM, a bigger HDD, an integrated TV tuner and comes with a wireless mouse and keyboard.

 

[hyper_piper45]

The iMac isn't entirely a better spec though, in fairness.

I suppose it depends on if you value the cpu and graphics chip over some of the other options. Either way, they are a similar spec and a similar price, therefore not overpriced.

 

[Kemik]

I would put it to you that Vista is cheaper because it's easily pirated.

I'm not saying that's the only reason but it's one factor.

 

[Chimerical]

Some people dispute claims, like revolutionary, visionary - but thats what the iPhone is, in terms of a consumer product.. I dont pretend to know an awful lot about mobile phones - but I know that my blackberry (the only thing I can compare it to!) does exchange support much better than logging onto webmail on the iPhone (which I currently do)

Well, yeah exactly. The iPhone is an awesome piece of marketing & timing and shows how consumer-aware Apple are.

I concede that the iPhone is a 'great phone' for a lot of people, but personally I'm happy with my black & white (screen) £10 Nokia.

Anyway, more to the point I think what Apple have done (very well) with their computer line up is simiplify it to games console levels of comprehensibility. iMac is as recognisable a name as Wii, PS3 or Xbox.

Its this simplicity and genius of branding and the sleek exteriors and 'hidden' specs which are what have made Macs successful with the general public.

PCs are still stuck in dinosaur land in comparison, with their Ultra Elite/1337 Gaming Extreme XXX UberXTREME Double Fifty point zero X5 naming strategies and the Dell/Alienware Hardcore Gamer Black PC exteriors and moody themes and selling points/campaigns.

As with consoles (especially the Wii), as with the Asus eeePC, as with the iMac, as with the iPhone even; if HP, Dell, Alienware, Microsoft really want to embed PCs in the general public's minds as affordable, easy to use, cheap gaming/work/entertainment PCs then they need to literally step out into the light which Apple have done.

Create simple product branding, purpose built machines, don't sell based on spec, sell based on preference of user and cater the spec to suit them (idiotproofing essentially) and stop selling pathetic £2500 Gaming machines (like the HP Blackbird) that no-one can afford.

 

[clv101]

Vista changed plenty, so it's been revised fairly recently really.



Neither does a Windows machine, generally. In the same amount of time that I've had my Vista installation, my housemate has had to wipe his iMac twice because he was unhappy with the speed/stability of his system. Fact is, such things can happen to both, so it's no good passing generalisations about how "slow and bloated" Vista is when it blatantly isn't always true.

Maybe not *always* true - but I have Vista and Leopard (Hackintosh) both installed on near identical boxes side by side (multiple inputs on same dual monitors) and it makes Vista look very *slow and bloated*.

 

[LordSplodge]

Given that OSX installs many GBs of drivers and language files you don't really need, it probably counts as bloated too.

I meant code size, not installed size! Anyway, I always do a custom install so don't have the Dutch language or Epson printer drivers. Apparently Snow Leopard will be more streamlined. See this quote from Apple:

Snow Leopard — scheduled to ship in about a year — builds on Leopard’s enormous innovations by delivering a new generation of core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality. Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users, and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos.

 

[PardonTheWait]

For me, the Mac's seemingly higher price is justified by these things:

An excellent OS

Excellent bundled software - The iLife suite is just exceptional compared with what you get bundled with Windows

Reliability

No need for antivirus or much maintenance

Stability

Speed

Build Quality (mostly!)

Customer Service - it's exceptional, especially instore

Design (Next time you're near one, look at an iMac. The entire body of it is machined out of one solid lump of aluminium. There's ONE visible screw on the entire machine, and it's on the bottom)

Resale value

Fashion (sue me)

And then reasons that are specific to me:

They've been my career since I was 19

They're what I know best

They're what I prefer
If you don't agree with those reasons, don't buy one. Macs aren't for everyone, but I firmly believe that for most people, Macs are more pleasant and easier to own, and the vast majority of people are more productive on one once they learn how to work it.

 

[LordSplodge]

...Good Stuff...

Sure, but the PC crowd like to come along and bash Macs from time to time despite the fact that for your average person who wants to get stuff done (rather than tweak their nvidia settings) a Mac is a far better choice. Shame they are so overpriced then, eh?

 

[FreeStream]

A typical case for PCs not working:

Plug my 40D into my mac, access and working straight away.

After installing the drivers for the PC, it *still* doesn't pick it up... even after a reinstall. STILL nothing.

Gave up after that :/

 

[Will_3rd]

You get what you pay for, some people like quality products.

If you want to pay for creaky and ugly Dell go ahead

 

[TheVoice]

Dell at least do the best of both worlds though. Cheap machines like the low-end Inspirons for people who just want a basic machine that won't cost them much. Then you've got the XPS M1330 and M1530 for those with bigger budgets, and as you say, you certainly do get what you pay for in those cases.

 

[itsallaboutyou]

Dell at least do the best of both worlds though. Cheap machines like the low-end Inspirons for people who just want a basic machine that won't cost them much. Then you've got the XPS M1330 and M1530 for those with bigger budgets, and as you say, you certainly do get what you pay for in those cases.

I would agree actually.. for example, my cad workstation used to be Dell Precision 690, dual xeons, was an absolute stonker of a machine.... cost a small fortune at the time!

Now though that machine is obsolete, and i've moved up a bit and I'm using a precision notebook... but the build quality on those high end machines really is quite good.. its just a shame that the customer service leaves a lot to be desired...

I actually managed to persuade my boss that a Macbook Pro would be more cost effective and last longer... its still not materialised but i can't wait!

All I can say is I have a 1998 imac G4 which i still use day to day and it hasnt skipped a beat... Cost me £17!

I wont ever knock dell, mainly because they're the machines I've had most use out of, both personally and at work..

My computing experience just went in a different direction and I'm quite chuffed with the choice I made! and happy to pay for it

God I sound like a cheesy made for TV movie! hmm

 

[ichabod crane]

- Bundled software that you might actually use
- Works right out the box (any purchased pc will do this but the majority of the people arguing on here will build a machine and faff about with drivers till the cows come home)
- Everything is plug and play no matter what i connect be it my A3 deskjet or even my A2 designjet which isnt a standard home users printer into knows exactly what it is with out hunting through HP for drivers
- Looks fine straight out the box and onto my desk no need to find a nice case then hack it to bits to how i want it to look!
- Ease of use i used to love building uber pc's and watercooling them etc... but it became a pain after a while upgrading all the time to get better performance from the programs i use, Where as when i got my mac it runs much more efficiently than any pc/laptop i have had and i dont have to worry about upgrading because it intergrates my software into the OS and hasnt stuggled once in its lifetime.

By the time you price up a pc they arent that cheap at all, the little things soon add up.

 

[LordSplodge]

I agree with those people advocating the use of Dell machines. I have moved my current employers from buying some crappy brand (Compusys) to Dell Optiplex on the desktop and Latitude for the laptops. The machines are well built and come with good warranties. I moved my previous employer to entirely Dell (including replacing the HP servers) and to be honest they worked almost flawlessly. Shame the operating system on top didn't.

I had a Dell laptop for home use (an Inspiron) and it was a piece of crap. The case flexed it was badly designed and didn't work well. So I am not sure I'd ever have another dell consumer machines and I don't think the XPS machines look that good anyway.

I have used a lot of laptops and not one of them has been as good looking or as (seemingly) well built and reliable as any Apple laptops I have owned or used. So for home use now (where my time is precious and I just want to get stuff done) it's Apple only.

Oh and when work pony up for a new laptop, guess what I have asked for? That's right an Apple laptop! Shame it will have to have Windows on it though...

 

[colinuk]

For me, the Mac's seemingly higher price is justified by these things:

An excellent OS

Excellent bundled software - The iLife suite is just exceptional compared with what you get bundled with Windows

Reliability

No need for antivirus or much maintenance

Stability

Speed

Build Quality (mostly!)

Customer Service - it's exceptional, especially instore

Design (Next time you're near one, look at an iMac. The entire body of it is machined out of one solid lump of aluminium. There's ONE visible screw on the entire machine, and it's on the bottom)

Resale value

Fashion (sue me)

And then reasons that are specific to me:

They've been my career since I was 19

They're what I know best

They're what I prefer
If you don't agree with those reasons, don't buy one. Macs aren't for everyone, but I firmly believe that for most people, Macs are more pleasant and easier to own, and the vast majority of people are more productive on one once they learn how to work it.

OK, lets take these points one at a time shall we...

An excellent OS - and XP Pro isnt? or windows for that matter.... sure they have niggles and issues, but i have used note books too, and they too die and have niggles that need fixing also.

Excellent bundled software - er? Office???? whats wrong with Microsoft office?

Reliability - i have had 3 PC's in my work running graphics software for about 2 years, nothing has gone wrong with either of them. I admit, they are hand built with darn fine parts... You buy cheap - you get cheap, 95% of the time.

No need for antivirus -why would someone write a virus to effect a machine that only around 6% of people use? how would you get known... if Mac were 90% of the market you would have as much issues as Microsoft do now..

Stability - er XP Pro + SP2..... nothing wrong with it at all.

Speed - not sure, never seen a MAC overclocked? But i know my top end PC is bloody fast in Photoshop, faster than my mates mac...

Customer Service - here we can agree, the staff in mac shops are very nice and seem to know about things, more than say PCworld, but if i had to ask a question, id rather go to OcUK than Mac?

Design - what? my PC's sit under my desk, i cant see them, look lovely also my XPS laptop looks good to me. the servers i have are in a rack, nicely slotted away....

Resale value - only to other mac uers and you lot are either students [no money] or being told to buy a mac through your busisness... most people who have a choice buy PC's.

Fashion - worse reason to buy a machine for any purpose, it looks nice... so what. The last advert for mac summed it up for me. After the sales and marketing team looked it over checked everything they could agaisnt the PC market, what do they come up with.... IT DOESNT WEIGH a lot.... come on... tell you a lot that doesnt it...

They've been my career since I was 19 - fair enough, but unless you really try both sides how will you really know?

They're what I know best - but arnt you curious to find out what a top of the range PC can do.... not the low end, they are for office and internet only, but go get a top of the range XPS or a prebuilt £2000 pc from OcUK and prepared to be amazed...

I use both, in work and at home, i feel i can say things about both that are good and bad. It really is like you say, its what your use to, what you mates are telling you and why you want one.

Still cant get over the fact the mac mouse STILL only has 1 button lol...

No matter what people here say, its a presonal choice and thats something we cant change. I only wish more people would see macs and pc's as tools to be used and not something to fight over lol..

ColiN

PS - im not having a go at you Mohinder, you just raised all the Pro mac points in one post and its easy to give the other sides answer to you then everyone.

To the OP, yes macs are over priced at the top of the range items compared to a PC, its about 50-60% cheaper to buy the same PC as to the mac atm. They use to be better for graphics, not any more, the PC's have caught up, the speeds are about the same, admitly, ladies like macs as they look nice, men want power not looks. PC's have many more companies building parts for them so its harder to find what is good but worth it in the end.

And Pc's have mice with 2+ buttons lol...

You take your money, you buy the one you want and good luck to you all for your choice, but, please, make it your choice eh?

<ColiN> - Pc and Mac user.