Making a murderer - The Avery case (Spoilers)

[Felon]

The point wasn't about whether I should care or not I just thought it was a bit off that you were being misleading, we'd already seen the phone calls for that specific day so making a vague reply citing phone calls in evidence after we've both already seen those for the specific day and I'm referring to other days is rather dubious. This is coming after you earlier in the thread claimed he'd used a "fake name".

I'd prefer it if you stuck to the facts and didn't attempt to mislead.

Fake/false/different - it's a fact he made an appointment to Autotrader, asking specifically for Teresa Halbach (the victim) using a name other than his own.

Followed by him making two direct calls to her from a withheld number (and only her) it doesn't matter that the phone records only show that day.

It's not misleading, it's what happened - you may see it as insignificant - perhaps you don't understand how it could be significant in a murder case, to be calling a murder victim from a withheld number, I however see it as suspicious.

 

[dowie]

I think you’re perhaps not following what I was highlighting as misleading, it was your ambiguous reply to my post where I was talking about phone records on other days - you replied to that by vaguely referring to records that actually were for one specific day and that we'd already both seen as you'd already previously linked to them. I'm not referring to facts about what happened as misleading.

I didn't say it was insignificant, I pointed out that it was perhaps suspicious but that it would be interesting to see phone records for other days too. He did have a reason to call her that day

 

[ColdAsIce]

To be fair, the first place I read this was from the DA Ken Kratz who was saying it was a fake name, which was widely reported; https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/...en-details-left-out-making-murderer/79010588/

When you read the court transcripts, it's more difficult to claim he was using a fake name, however I still think it's suspicious that he chose to call Autotrader as Steven Avery but claimed it was his sister, whilst asking for a specific person for the job. There is a theory that Halbach was frightened of Avery, because on the last occasion she went - he confronted her wearing only a towel, so he might have called using his sisters name - in order to get her to think she might not be meeting Steven. However - she would still have known she was going to the Avery's as the address was obvious.



According to the phone records in evidence, he never uses *67 apart from when he calls her those two times before she disappears, followed by a third time - which is a suspected attempt at creating an alibi.



If you ready Brendan Dassey's original confession here, page 491 through to around 500

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...31fcb/1452804939980/TwoRiversPDTranscript.pdf (warning, this contains some nasty stuff)

Basically Brendan claims that Steven originally tied her up and stabbed her inside the car down in the gravel pit, presumably killing her - then he used a sled to move her from the pit, up to the fire pit where they presumably dismembered and burnt her remains.

Edit - it seems Brendan Dassey changed his confession later when he was interrogated and added a lot more detail, I spent about 2 hours reading through it (because I'm sad) and the sequence of events portrayed by Brendan Dassey looks something like this;

• Brendan sees Teresa's Jeep near Steven's trailer and hears a female screaming
• He goes to investigate, to find her naked and handcuffed inside the trailer with Avery
• Brendan Dassay rapes her
• Steven Avery stabs her in the stomach and they try to cut her throat,
• Steven Avery then shoots her in the head, chest and other places
• Steven Avery initially loads her into the back of her Jeep so they can drive down to the gravel pit to throw her in the water
• They change the plan and instead unload her from the Jeep and burn her in the fire pit.

Which sort of explains why there was blood and DNA in the Jeep and her remains were in the fire pit.

Yet not a single bit of blood evidence in his trailer? Come on man.

 

[Angilion]

Yet not a single bit of blood evidence in his trailer? Come on man.

I agree. According to that statement, while in the trailer she was stabbed in the stomach, an attempt was made to cut her throat, she was shot in the head, shot in the chest and shot in "other places". Without leaving any forensic evidence in the trailer where all that happened. That sounds wildly implausible to me. The first confession made a lot more sense. But that's dodgy in itself - at least one of those confessions must be a lie because they contradict each other a lot.

Maybe he did kill her, but there's some shenanigans going on with the case.

 

[Hellsmk2]

I think there is one thing we can all agree on; Season 2 doesn't try to hide behind a veneer of balanced reporting. It wears it's heart on its sleeve and is 100% biased in favour of Avery.

It's still compulsive viewing. I can see why Avery's new lawyer has had such success in the past.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Despite the length of the documentary, they do not bring up any information on Steve's two brothers, who have criminal convictions for sexual violence. In my mind there is some serious bad blood in the family between Steve Avery > Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych.

One of the biggest stand out points for me was Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych (Brendan's Step father)

During the trial they both make an alibi for themselves, saying they drove past each other and knew exactly when. This was to get them away from the last sighting of Teresa which was on the Avery estate. They also both just so happen to go hunting and no-one else sees them for many hours after.

The ex boyfriend should have been considered a suspect but is most likely a red herring, I don't think he would have had good detailed knowledge of the quarry. I bring up the Quarry because in my mind this was the primary burn site. I think either Bobby or Scott maybe both of them, drove Teresa's body in her Rav 4 to the Quarry and burned her body. The vehicle was either dumped there or left near by.

This is where the Police corruption starts to come in. Andrew Colborn discovers the vehicle two days before it's found on the Avery property. I would say this is 99% certain when you hear his call with dispatch. The Police now most likely have the vehicle and the burn site but no way of ever proving Steve Avery is responsible. They have already decided he is guilty but are going have to push evidence in the right direction to make it stick.

During the 10 day search of the property, they move some of the bone fragments from the Quarry to small burn pit behind Steve's house and a 2nd location on the property.

They plant the key which remember only has Steve's DNA on it. Not a single trace of Teresa Halbach's DNA is on this key because it was completely scrubbed so clean (Highly suspicious no?)

The search party was specifically pushed in the right direction by the Police to find the Rav 4. Lets not forget that Steve has access to a car crusher but instead of using it to destroy the vehicle/evidence. He puts some branches over the car on the edge of the estate. Makes absolutely no sense.

Also lets not forget that for her body to have been dismembered etc on the property, there would have been blood all over the garage and in his home. They searched and searched but not a single drop of her blood was found anywhere. There is just no physical way he is so good at cleaning up evidence that his dirty trailer and Garage full of junk would not show a single bit of blood evidence.

This was most of my original post after viewing Season 1 and it stands up even more after Season 2. Especially the new light on Bobby Dassey's viewing habits

 

[Felon]

Yet not a single bit of blood evidence in his trailer? Come on man.

I agree. According to that statement, while in the trailer she was stabbed in the stomach, an attempt was made to cut her throat, she was shot in the head, shot in the chest and shot in "other places". Without leaving any forensic evidence in the trailer where all that happened.

According to Dassey's statements and the evidence regarding blood on the bedsheets in the trailer;

Dassey claims there was blood on the bedsheets and pillows in the trailer following the situation in Avery's trailer, however in his confession he claims that Avery disposed of them by burning them a couple of days later;

(March 1st statement page 606 - 610)
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta.../1452480329562/Transcript+-+March+1,+2006.pdf

(May 13th statement - page 844 - 845)
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...dda3ba5af/1452473032041/13May06Transcript.pdf

Let's also not forget, that Avery had the luxury of his trailer for 5 days before they found her car on his lot, in that time he could have done anything to clean up the crime scene, the fact is - we'll never know, but the explanation of why no blood was found on the bed is provided on two separate occasions in Brendan's confession.

Regarding Halbach being shot in the head, Brendon confesses that Avery shot her once in the head, stomach and heart - this was also shown to the court in evidence by the forensic anthropologist who provided evidence of a bullet wound to Halbach's skull, from fragments which were found on the fire - so both Brendan's confession and the evidence are aligned on the cause of death, a bullet fired from Avery's gun was also found on the garage floor with Halbach's DNA on it.

Furthermore; in Brendan's statements he claims that both he and Avery used bleach and her own clothes to clean up the blood on the garage floor, subsequent luminol testing of the spots identified by Brendan gave positive results, to add to this - jeans which were wore by Brendan were heavily stained with bleach, along with empty bleach containers found inside Avery's trailer.

Reasons why the planting/framing theory can be proven wrong;

If Avery is innocent, then all of the physical and DNA evidence against him, must have been planted by a person or person's unknown, in order to successfully frame him and land him in jail, including;

- The Rav4 in Avery's lot without anybody seeing
- The attempt to disguise the Rav 4
- The plates from the Rav 4, removed and hidden in Avery's lot
- Avery's blood inside the Rav 4 driver side
- Avery's DNA on the hood latch
- Halbach's blood inside the Rav 4
- Halbach's remains in the burn pit outside Avery's trailer
- Halbach's personal belongings (found near the burn pit)
- The key to the Rav 4 planted in Avery's trailer
- The bullet in the garage fired from Avery's rifle (found with Halbach's DNA on)
- The spots of bleach on the garage floor (identified by luminol testing)

The simplest way to rule out planting of evidence is in looking at five specific pieces of evidence;

• The Rav 4 and it's location in the junkyard.
• Avery's blood on the Rav 4
• Halbach's blood on the Rav 4
• Halbach's remains in the burnpit
• The bullet with Halbach's DNA

1. We know that Halbach's Rav 4 was on the Avery property that day, placing her at the scene, we also know Avery saw her at his property that day (because he admitted it) which means it was already at the scene because she drove there in it. Furthermore Dassey gives a detailed account of how they in-fact tried to hide it after they killed her and provides accurate detail that matches up with how it was found, along with what happened to the plates and details like Avery looking under the hood (his DNA on the hood latch, how they disguised it using branches and junk) Brendan gives specific details which align too closely to the scene, to be made up.
2. Avery's original blood sample had no signs of tampering, ruling out the possibility that a third party could have been throwing his blood around the Rav 4. Both the evidence (laceration on his hand) and the statement by Dassey align with how he cut himself whilst he stabbed Halbach, which is a reasonable explanation for how his blood got onto the scene.
3. The only way Halbach's blood could have been planted, is if somebody had gained access to it before she was burnt, for which there is no evidence, narrative, argument or theory whatsoever that makes sense. Dassey explains in detail, how Avery's original plan was to use her own Jeep to drive down to the quarry to throw her in the water, but he changes his mind, removes her from the back and instead burns her on the burn pit, which is again a reasonable explanation as to how her blood got in the back.
4. Her remains in the burnpit, were entwined with the remains of tyres which were uses as an accelerant - which rules out the theory that she was burnt elsewhere then her remains transported and thrown into Avery's burnpit. The only way this could have been planted, is if a third party cremated her at Avery's own burnpit - on a night when they were all in, feet from his trailer - without anybody noticing a thing, anybody seeing her being put there, anybody noticing an unexplainable fire.
5. The rifle Avery used to kill Halbach had been confiscated by the police during a search of his trailer on November 6th, how did Halbach's DNA end up on a bullet that had been fired by Avery's gun more than a week after she'd been killed, without any blood, saliva to plant the DNA on it - (because she'd been cremated on the 31st)? In order for the bullet to have been planted, somebody must have fired the gun after the fact, then transferred her DNA (and only hers) to the bullet - without any blood, saliva, etc - which is a pretty difficult to pull off, a far simpler explanation is that her DNA got onto the bullet, because Avery shot her in the head with it, as per the evidence from the skull fragments, and Dassey's confession.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Did you see the videos made by Police at the time of his trailer? Telling me not a spec of blood found its way to his mattress / carpet / walls? Not a single sign of any attempt at cleaning that trailer of his.

 

[ColdAsIce]

According to Dassey's statements and the evidence regarding blood on the bedsheets in the trailer;

a bullet fired from Avery's gun was also found on the garage floor with Halbach's DNA on it.

Got a link to the bullet having her DNA on it? They test the bullet found in the garage in season 2 for bone fragments.

 

[Felon]

Did you see the videos made by Police at the time of his trailer? Telling me not a spec of blood found its way to his mattress / carpet / walls? Not a single sign of any attempt at cleaning that trailer of his.

Nobody other than Avery knows, the only evidence that there was ever blood in the trailer was when Dassey confessed that Avery removed the bloodstained bedding and burnt it, aside from that - there's nothing.

It doesn't really swing the needle much either way, if the police or third party went to the trouble of planting evidence all over the place, why did they conveniently skip doing so in the very place where Avery/Brendan allegedly raped her, stabber her and cut her throat (his bedroom) if evidence was planted everywhere, why skip the most obvious place of all?

Lastly, we just do not know the dynamics of what happened in the trailer, how much blood there was - where it went, who cleaned it, if the police were sloppy or rubbish at finding it - there's no point really arguing it, because the facts aren't known other than what Dassey testified, so the best we can do is resort to speculation.

Again - apply occam's razor; The simplest most likely explanation, is that Avery killed her and Brendan helped.

Any other explanation, requires vast leaps of blind faith, unfounded speculation, ignorance of the evidence that was obtained along with expert testimony, you have to throw all of that out in order to frame Avery.

Got a link to the bullet having her DNA on it? They test the bullet found in the garage in season 2 for bone fragments.

It's in the testimony from the court case, specifically the scientist who collected and processed the DNA found on the bullet.

Page 75 / 76;
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...af0bfc5a97ad/1452485308001/dassey_4_18_07.pdf

I reject what season 2 of Netflix is saying, because Zellner just wants to get a ton of money and publicity and will say anything, to advance her narrative that someone was framed, despite the evidence showing Avery and Brendan are guilty and right where they need to be.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Nobody other than Avery knows, the only evidence that there was ever blood in the trailer was when Dassey confessed that Avery removed the bloodstained bedding and burnt it, aside from that - there's nothing.

It doesn't really swing the needle much either way, if the police or third party went to the trouble of planting evidence all over the place, why did they conveniently skip doing so in the very place where Avery/Brendan allegedly raped her, stabber her and cut her throat (his bedroom) if evidence was planted everywhere, why skip the most obvious place of all?

Lastly, we just do not know the dynamics of what happened in the trailer, how much blood there was - where it went, who cleaned it, if the police were sloppy or rubbish at finding it - there's no point really arguing it, because the facts aren't known other than what Dassey testified, so the best we can do is resort to speculation.

Again - apply occam's razor; The simplest most likely explanation, is that Avery killed her and Brendan helped.

Any other explanation, requires vast leaps of blind faith, unfounded speculation, ignorance of the evidence that was obtained along with expert testimony, you have to throw all of that out in order to frame Avery.



It's in the testimony from the court case, specifically the scientist who collected and processed the DNA found on the bullet.

Page 75 / 76;
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...af0bfc5a97ad/1452485308001/dassey_4_18_07.pdf

I reject what season 2 of Netflix is saying, because Zellner just wants to get a ton of money and publicity and will say anything, to advance her narrative that someone was framed, despite the evidence showing Avery and Brendan are guilty and right where they need to be.

Need to do more digging into the findings from Season 1 but there are reports from the defense lawyer that deer blood was found in the garage. I don't find it credible that Steven Avery was capable of cleaning every spec of Teresa's blood from that garage while leaving so many items that could also be contaminated with her blood. Then leaving trace blood of Animals but not Teresa.

As for the DNA of the bullet. It seems the test was tainted:

Culhane’s report found traces of Halbach’s DNA on the bullet from Avery’s garage. However, she also noted that the control samples revealed traces of her own DNA. In other words, the test was tainted. Normal procedure would have had her run the test again, but she couldn’t in this case because she had already used the entire sample. That led the experts to wonder whether “she would have decided to ignore her own protocol and report the highly problematic results of this test had she not known of the pressing desire of the police to ‘put’ Halbach in Avery’s garage.” In other words, because the botched test revealed what the prosecution wanted it to, was Culhane inclined to ignore her own scientific procedures?

The hood latch and the key fob only having the DNA of Steven Avery just doesn't make sense either. No-one can say for certain that it's "sweat" DNA. Just Kratz playing a guessing game.

 

[Ayahuasca]

I reject what season 2 of Netflix is saying, because Zellner just wants to get a ton of money and publicity and will say anything, to advance her narrative that someone was framed, despite the evidence showing Avery and Brendan are guilty and right where they need to be.

I believe they were both guilty as well but this way of thinking is a bit silly.

There were people involved on the other side who were extremely dodgy, so should we just throw away everything they did because of what you think of them personally? Ken Kratz for example:

In October 2009, Kratz was prosecuting a domestic violence case against the boyfriend of a 26-year-old domestic violence victim. She filed a police report in Kaukauna, Wisconsin, alleging that Kratz had sent her 30 sexually coercive text messages over the span of three days.[16] She said that she felt that he was trying to coerce her into a sexual relationship at the risk of dismissing the case against her boyfriend.[17] The report was referred to the state's Division of Criminal Investigation. During the DCI investigation, two more women came forward accusing Kratz of harassing and intimidating them.[18] At the time, Kratz was serving as chairman of the Wisconsin Crime Victims' Rights Board.[4]

Kratz resigned in October 2010 after governor Jim Doyle sought his removal.[19][6] After his accuser filed a federal civil suit against him, Kratz settled out of court in 2013.[20][21]

In June 2014, Kratz's law license was suspended for four months by the Wisconsin Supreme Court. During the disciplinary hearing, Kratz admitted abusing prescription drugs and being treated for sexual addiction and narcissistic personality disorder.

 

[Felon]

Need to do more digging into the findings from Season 1 but there are reports from the defense lawyer that deer blood was found in the garage. I don't find it credible that Steven Avery was capable of cleaning every spec of Teresa's blood from that garage while leaving so many items that could also be contaminated with her blood. Then leaving trace blood of Animals but not Teresa.

Well it's you vs the evidence.

Brendan Dassey's confession (3 separate statements)
Positive luminol tests in the garage from the spots Brendan identified
The bullet found in the garage with Hallbach's DNA on it.

As for the DNA of the bullet. It seems the test was tainted:

Culhane’s report found traces of Halbach’s DNA on the bullet from Avery’s garage. However, she also noted that the control samples revealed traces of her own DNA. In other words, the test was tainted. Normal procedure would have had her run the test again, but she couldn’t in this case because she had already used the entire sample. That led the experts to wonder whether “she would have decided to ignore her own protocol and report the highly problematic results of this test had she not known of the pressing desire of the police to ‘put’ Halbach in Avery’s garage.” In other words, because the botched test revealed what the prosecution wanted it to, was Culhane inclined to ignore her own scientific procedures?

Lol why are you copying and pasting website articles and making them look like your own; https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...sic-testing-in-making-a-murderer-case-179602/ (paragraph 8)

Yeah I mean it's unfortunate that she tainted the test, that's well known - however Halbach's DNA was still found on the bullet, this was deemed admissible and so the Jury saw it - if the defence could have argued that it should be struck, then it should have been - but they couldn't.

 

[deuse]

Nobody other than Avery knows, the only evidence that there was ever blood in the trailer was when Dassey confessed that Avery removed the bloodstained bedding and burnt it, aside from that - there's nothing.

It doesn't really swing the needle much either way, if the police or third party went to the trouble of planting evidence all over the place, why did they conveniently skip doing so in the very place where Avery/Brendan allegedly raped her, stabber her and cut her throat (his bedroom) if evidence was planted everywhere, why skip the most obvious place of all?

Lastly, we just do not know the dynamics of what happened in the trailer, how much blood there was - where it went, who cleaned it, if the police were sloppy or rubbish at finding it - there's no point really arguing it, because the facts aren't known other than what Dassey testified, so the best we can do is resort to speculation.

Again - apply occam's razor; The simplest most likely explanation, is that Avery killed her and Brendan helped.

Any other explanation, requires vast leaps of blind faith, unfounded speculation, ignorance of the evidence that was obtained along with expert testimony, you have to throw all of that out in order to frame Avery.



It's in the testimony from the court case, specifically the scientist who collected and processed the DNA found on the bullet.

Page 75 / 76;
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...af0bfc5a97ad/1452485308001/dassey_4_18_07.pdf

I reject what season 2 of Netflix is saying, because Zellner just wants to get a ton of money and publicity and will say anything, to advance her narrative that someone was framed, despite the evidence showing Avery and Brendan are guilty and right where they need to be.

It's now been proven it's not the bullet that killed the young lady.


The cop and the DA have done silly things to stop paying out millions of $ to Avery.

 

[Felon]

I believe they were both guilty as well but this way of thinking is a bit silly.

I don't really care about Ken Kratz, I think he's a greasy moron who had a lot of problems (drugs) - but I also think he was right in the case.

Zellner, is swanning around like Mystic Meg, proclaiming all of these crazy theories and conspiracies, with zero evidence, along with phoney brain scans and other nonsense, I reject it all outright as biased conspiracy nonsense. Not least - highly disrespectful to the actual victim (Teresa Halbach) and her family, who are the real victims here.

It's now been proven it's not the bullet that killed the young lady.


The cop and the DA have done silly things to stop paying out millions of $ to Avery.

Evidence please.

 

[deuse]

I don't really care about Ken Kratz, I think he's a greasy moron who had a lot of problems (drugs) - but I also think he was right in the case.

Zellner, is swanning around like Mystic Meg, proclaiming all of these crazy theories and conspiracies, with zero evidence, along with phoney brain scans and other nonsense, I reject it all outright as biased conspiracy nonsense. Not least - highly disrespectful to the actual victim (Teresa Halbach) and her family, who are the real victims here.




Evidence please.

Watch the new series. All the evidence is there.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Well it's you vs the evidence.

Brendan Dassey's confession (3 separate statements)
Positive luminol tests in the garage from the spots Brendan identified
The bullet found in the garage with Hallbach's DNA on it.



Lol why are you copying and pasting website articles and making them look like your own; https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...sic-testing-in-making-a-murderer-case-179602/ (paragraph 8)

Yeah I mean it's unfortunate that she tainted the test, that's well known - however Halbach's DNA was still found on the bullet, this was deemed admissible and so the Jury saw it - if the defence could have argued that it should be struck, then it should have been - but they couldn't.

Rofl steady on. Never claimed that was my writing. I google searched regarding the bullet because it's been 2 years since season 1 and there was no mention of it in Season 2. So are you fine with the test standing with the Sherry's DNA on them?

 

[IvanDobskey]

Just finished watching season 2 and just can't believe some of the stuff that was either withheld or overlooked

 

[Felon]

Watch the new series. All the evidence is there.

I'm not interested in what Netflix has to say because it can't be trusted, I'm interested in the evidence, where is the evidence?

As far as I can tell, season 2 mostly contains wild speculation and flim-flam.

Rofl steady on. Never claimed that was my writing. I google searched regarding the bullet because it's been 2 years since season 1 and there was no mention of it in Season 2. So are you fine with the test standing with the Sherry's DNA on them?

I'm fine with it, it does to some degree demonstrate that the lab probably isn't involved in anything shady - they're admitting their own mistakes and coming clean on a procedural mistake as they should do, if everything was being planted and was a conspiracy to get out of paying the money to Avery - why would they so easily and openly admit making such a mistake?

If the DNA on the bullet was the only piece of forensic evidence and there was none whatsoever anywhere else, then it would be difficult to get a guilty verdict on that alone. But the bullet is part of a large array of evidence that points to Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey

For example, take the DNA off the bullet - we still know it was fired from Avery's rifle, we still know that Avery was in possession of that rifle at the time Halbach was killed, we still know that Halbach died of a gunshot wound to the head, Brendan Dassey also confesses that Avery shot her in the head in the garage, where they found the bullet, where they got a positive luminol test, where they tried to clean up the blood with bleach that was found on Brendan's jeans, where empty containers of the bleach in question were found in Avery's trailer.

 

[deuse]

I'm not interested in what Netflix has to say because it can't be trusted, I'm interested in the evidence, where is the evidence?

As far as I can tell, season 2 mostly contains wild speculation and flim-flam.

Well watch it and find out.

I'm fine with it, it does to some degree demonstrate that the lab probably isn't involved in anything shady - they're admitting their own mistakes and coming clean on a procedural mistake as they should do, if everything was being planted and was a conspiracy to get out of paying the money to Avery - why would they so easily and openly admit making such a mistake?

If the lab admits there mistakes, then you would have every person that was sent down on the evidence from that lab screaming for a retrial.

If the DNA on the bullet was the only piece of forensic evidence and there was none whatsoever anywhere else, then it would be difficult to get a guilty verdict on that alone. But the bullet is part of a large array of evidence that points to Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey

A lab has looked at the bullet and found nothing but wood fragments.

For example, take the DNA off the bullet - we still know it was fired from Avery's rifle, we still know that Avery was in possession of that rifle at the time Halbach was killed, we still know that Halbach died of a gunshot wound to the head, Brendan Dassey also confesses that Avery shot her in the head in the garage, where they found the bullet, where they got a positive luminol test, where they tried to clean up the blood with bleach that was found on Brendan's jeans, where empty containers of the bleach in question were found in Avery's trailer.

The bullet was fired in to wood. No bone of blood or DNA was found when the lab looked at it.

What's the point in you debating this, when you won't learn from the new evidence?