Making a murderer - The Avery case (Spoilers)

NoobCannon · 21 Feb 2018 at 16:47

Smokey Deza said:
Zero interest in this. The guy douses a cat in petrol and then lobs it on a bonfire, correct? Why should I care if he's innocent or guilty for murder?

Why post that at all? Being a wierdo who kills animals doesnt mean you should be sent to prison for life why is a cat so different to a fox or an ant

Caged · 21 Feb 2018 at 16:54

Smokey Deza said:
Zero interest in this. The guy douses a cat in petrol and then lobs it on a bonfire, correct? Why should I care if he's innocent or guilty for murder?

Because, and I'll go slowly here, they are different crimes that carry different sentences.

jsmoke · 21 Feb 2018 at 19:29

There were a couple of other suspects, brother and ex bf being two of them.

v0n · 21 Feb 2018 at 19:30

NoobCannon said:
Being a wierdo who kills animals doesnt mean you should be sent to prison for life

Yet that is exactly why he is where he is. The case against him wasn't as weak as the show suggests, but it wasn't strong either, but after introduction to the "character" of Avery, rather than the evidence at hand, every jury and judge involved voted "nopes, purge" again and again, every single time. Just like Smokey, between injustice to Avery and having him around and about, they repeatedly decided 'do not want'.

Smokey Deza · 22 Feb 2018 at 02:12

NoobCannon said:
Why post that at all? Being a wierdo who kills animals doesnt mean you should be sent to prison for life why is a cat so different to a fox or an ant

Weird? If you deliberately immolate animals you're not 'strange', you are cruel and twisted. Really, some truly unlucky folk have been locked up for most of their lives, if not their whole life, for crimes they never commited. I'd rather spend my time and energy reading about them, instead of watching some sensationalist documentory on whether a sicko wack job may or may not of commited murder.

esoteric · 13 Oct 2018 at 09:45

I just finished watching this. It's incredible that Steven was convicted the second time off of the evidence given which was purely "this is what we think happened" which actually had 0 evidence WITH credibility. Absolutely baffling. Release this man from prison and once he gets out he should get the hell out of Wisconsin.

What happened to Brendan was despicable. At an IQ level he's at "Mild Mental Retardation" and this was abused to getting a false testimony. And his lawyer working against him and collaborating with the prosecution to convict Steven... holy ****. I actually thought when Mike O'Kelly interviewed Brendan in the class room where he confessed to giving a false testimony was proof at how this kid has no idea what's going on and is easily coerced into giving whats wanted so he can get away. After Brendan writes his confession Mike says why not draw the deceased and draw how she was restrained and killed etc ON THE BOTTOM OF HIS INNOCENCE plea wtf!! and after this the Judge won't let Brendan's lawyer be dismissed, like omg really??

Just wow at this.. WOW!

robfosters · 13 Oct 2018 at 09:47

esoteric said:
I just finished watching this. It's incredible that Steven was convicted the second time off of the evidence given which was purely "this is what we think happened" which actually had 0 evidence WITH credibility. Absolutely baffling. Release this man from prison and once he gets out he should get the hell out of Wisconsin.

What happened to Brendan was despicable. At an IQ level he's at "Mild Mental Retardation" and this was abused to getting a false testimony. And his lawyer working against him and collaborating with the prosecution to convict Steven... holy ****. I actually thought when Mike O'Kelly interviewed Brendan in the class room where he confessed to giving a false testimony was proof at how this kid has no idea what's going on and is easily coerced into giving whats wanted so he can get away. After Brendan writes his confession Mike says why not draw the deceased and draw how she was restrained and killed etc ON THE BOTTOM OF HIS INNOCENCE plea wtf!! and after this the Judge won't let Brendan's lawyer be dismissed, like omg really??

Just wow at this.. WOW!

You probably already know, but the second series starts next Friday. Can’t wait!

esoteric · 13 Oct 2018 at 10:03

robfosters said:
You probably already know, but the second series starts next Friday. Can’t wait!

Yes I know, it's what prompted me to knock the first season out in 24 hours, after a bit of push from my mates who've been telling me to watch it in 2 years.

Delvis · 13 Oct 2018 at 11:14

robfosters said:
You probably already know, but the second series starts next Friday. Can’t wait!

Wait, what?

What medium?

robfosters · 13 Oct 2018 at 11:16

Delvis said:
Wait, what?

What medium?

Netflix

Delvis · 13 Oct 2018 at 11:44

robfosters said:
Netflix

That's a shame.

robfosters · 13 Oct 2018 at 12:07

Delvis said:
That's a shame.

Why? Just sub for one month and watch the lot.

Jambo · 13 Oct 2018 at 12:15

If you enjoyed Making A Murderer I highly recommend The Staircase. Superb!

PermaChanged · 23 Oct 2018 at 10:56

Has anyone watched / finished Part 2 yet? Yet more compelling viewing!

VincentHanna · 23 Oct 2018 at 10:58

Decided to watch Daredevil Season 3 first

Will get to it soon.

Yaayuh! · 23 Oct 2018 at 11:00

PermaChanged said:
Has anyone watched / finished Part 2 yet? Yet more compelling viewing!

Indeed, very interesting and anger inducing (again). Didn't like the way that Zellner was portrayed though, could have been called the "Zellner Show"

PermaChanged · 23 Oct 2018 at 11:19

I'm not sure they could have NOT made it the Zellner Show, as it was her, and her team, finding all the flaws in the prosecutions allegations and things that the defence team missed.

After this second series I'm even more convinced of Steven's innocence, which I'm sure was the documentaries intention from series 1.

Screeeech · 23 Oct 2018 at 11:37

I think he's guilty and is exactly where he ought to be.

One of the biggest hurdles to get around, is how he used a fake name and tried to disguise his phone number using *67, when calling Halbach (several times). Her car and remains are found on his property shortly after. (that's not even considering the forensic evidence)

If you're going to believe he's not guilty, then you must;

Believe the Police murdered Teresa Halbach, or arranged it.
Planted all of the forensic evidence
Planted the Rav4 on Avery's land without anybody noticing
Planted Halbach's purse, phone, camera and personal items 20 feet from Avery's door
Manipulated the phone records to plant the calls he made to Autotrader
Planted the bullet in his garage, along with (Halbach's DNA) fired from Avery's own gun (which had been impounded)
Made up statements from Avery's previous inmates saying how he wanted to build a torture chamber to put women in (motive?)
Made up the reports that Halbach already knew Avery, had met him before and was 'creeped out' by him (victim knows the killer)

The problem with all of the above, is that it seems from the documentary that the Manitowoc county Sherrif's department, is comprised of halfwits - which makes it extremely unlikely that they could pull off all of the above tasks without messing it up, the amount of people who'd need to be involved combined with the temptation to 'blab' to a reporter, makes it extremely unlikely that this is a conspiracy. It's not impossible - it could be, but for me, it's very very unlikely.

VincentHanna · 23 Oct 2018 at 11:42

I think he's guilty.

His nephew clearly had nothing to do with it and it was an absolute travesty of justice though. The US legal system is pretty farcical as well.

Yaayuh! · 23 Oct 2018 at 11:44

Screeeech said:
I think he's guilty and is exactly where he ought to be.

One of the biggest hurdles to get around, is how he used a fake name and tried to disguise his phone number using *67, when calling Halbach (several times). Her car and remains are found on his property shortly after. (that's not even considering the forensic evidence) --> He used his sister's name, probably because she doesn't like him? You would have thought he'd use a made up name surely?and IIRC it's her (Barb's) car.

If you're going to believe he's not guilty, then you must;

Believe the Police murdered Teresa Halbach, or arranged it. --> No you don't.

Planted all of the forensic evidence. --> Most of it yes. Given the history with the previous lawsuit, there's certainly motive.

Planted the Rav4 on Avery's land without anybody noticing --> No you don't

Planted Halbach's purse, phone, camera and personal items 20 feet from Avery's door. --> Probably

Manipulated the phone records to plant the calls he made to Autotrader. --> No you don't.

Planted the bullet in his garage, along with (Halbach's DNA) fired from Avery's own gun (which had been impounded) --> DNA yes, but no known source and no bone.

Made up statements from Avery's previous inmates saying how he wanted to build a torture chamber to put women in (motive?) --> Hardly credible.

Made up the reports that Halbach already knew Avery, had met him before and was 'creeped out' by him (victim knows the killer) --> Of course he has used her services before. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem with all of the above, is that it seems from the documentary that the Manitowoc county Sherrif's department, is comprised of halfwits - which makes it extremely unlikely that they could pull off all of the above tasks without messing it up, the amount of people who'd need to be involved combined with the temptation to 'blab' to a reporter, makes it extremely unlikely that this is a conspiracy. It's not impossible - it could be, but for me, it's very very unlikely.

Replies above.

His case is far from perfect for sure and i'm not saying he's innocent. But IMO (and of course the opinion of many others, including legal professionals) the case against him is just dubious as hell and a complete farce.

The info around Bobby is interesting.

edit: I'm more wound up by Bendan's "confession" than Stephen Avery to be honest. It's pretty ridiculous.