Malaysia Grand Prix 2012, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/20
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Mark Webber says hello
I agree and his contract is up this year as well. So we potentially have two top teams, wanting some drivers. Hopefully to some of the promising midfield drivers. I want to see kobyashi in a decent seat as well as Paul di resta.
Even so MW still isn't as bad as FM.
Its not Massa as a whole, its Massa from 2011 and 2012. He has had his time in Ferrari and I think they have a rather decent pool of drivers from which to pick a replacement. I just wonder if letting him trundle around struggling to score points for the rest of the season is the best plan?
I think the bottom line for me is that if Ferrari turn it round and the car is back up the front, Massa will be filling a seat that someone else could be doing a better job in. Its the difference between having a number 1 and number 2 driver, and having a number 1 and "Who's that other guy?" driver.
Just my thoughts though. I expect 2012 will be very much like 2011, in that we will see very little of Massa both on and off the track to the extent that we pretty much forget he' there.
I think the bottom line for me is that if Ferrari turn it round and the car is back up the front, Massa will be filling a seat that someone else could be doing a better job in. Its the difference between having a number 1 and number 2 driver, and having a number 1 and "Who's that other guy?" driver.
Just my thoughts though. I expect 2012 will be very much like 2011, in that we will see very little of Massa both on and off the track to the extent that we pretty much forget he' there.
Mark Webber says hello
But Mark justifies his seat more than Massa does his at the moment.
Massa hasn't been the same since his accident as Glaucus said. It would be nice to see him back as his 'old self', before the accident but I don't see this happening and I'm not a 'Massa hater'.
1 race in to 2012, yes he had a poor season last year just like Lewis, 2010 was not all that bad and fitted in with the no2 role Ferrari wanted, last season he had loads of poor strategy calls and some terrible pitstops, and off course Lewis to deal with
As said in 2010 when Alonso was winning races, Massa was right up there, which off course suggests what I said, when the car is good then Massa will come good, when the car is poor then Alonso will show his skills and they will be much more highlighted, Alonso is the best for a reason
Look at MS v Rubens, when the car was dominant then Rubens was up there, 2005 and Rubens was nowhere as the talent gap was highlighted in a poor car.
Ok, running with your point then, we all agree that the Ferrari this year is not where it needs to be yet, correct?
Then why should Ferrari sacrifice half of its driver feedback and development input to someone who is unable to drive around a poor car? I have no doubt that Alonso will drag that car beyond where it is in terms of performance, but will Massa, or will he just trundle around barely scoring points?
At the current time Ferrari really need drivers to help them develop the car, and I'm not convinced Massa will do that. I've no idea who else would, but it does seem to me like its a job Alonso is going to have to do on his own.
Then why should Ferrari sacrifice half of its driver feedback and development input to someone who is unable to drive around a poor car? I have no doubt that Alonso will drag that car beyond where it is in terms of performance, but will Massa, or will he just trundle around barely scoring points?
At the current time Ferrari really need drivers to help them develop the car, and I'm not convinced Massa will do that. I've no idea who else would, but it does seem to me like its a job Alonso is going to have to do on his own.
Soldato
- Joined
- 24 Aug 2006
- Posts
- 10,113
- Location
- Gibraltar
mass hasn't been the same after the accident because he hasn't got a break to up his confidence. Bad car, races and a team mate that has the full backing of the team help you stay in the dumps. I think the german gp was the final straw for him, he needs to go to another team.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2003
- Posts
- 10,140
- Location
- Europe
Correction - Massa hasn't been the same since the Ferrari wasn't arguably the best car on the grid.
Massa also hasn't been the same since traction control was turned off.
I don't believe his accident had much impact. After all he dosn't remember anything about it.
So basically you want Massa replaced, that's fine but there is no point in debating when your stance will not be changed, and vice versa
Ferrari is about Alonso, the car will go in the direction he wants from his feedback which by all accounts is very good.You said Ferrari should look at their younger drivers, like Perez or Bianchi I assume how on earth would they assist in developing the car?
Tell me why Eddie Irvine got 4 years and Barrichello got 5 years when neither of them could develop a cold
we all know why.....Massa hasn't lost anything as a result of an accident. He never had it to lose. He had a car that should have won the title in 2008 and he looked better than a completely out of sorts Kimi. Anything he has lost came with the realisation the team are building around someone else. The same as happened to webbers head last year.
Then again as Mr Men says maybe that's not a problem, the car and team isn't built around him they just need someone to pick up reasonable points in case the get near the constructors.
At no point in time have I ever rated Massa, he has always been erratic and did nothing to even justify the seat in the first place in the same way people used to say Kubica etc deserved a better seat but none are available.
Sadly his career will end up being a slide down the grid to Sauber, Caterham or some other mid to low team.
Then again as Mr Men says maybe that's not a problem, the car and team isn't built around him they just need someone to pick up reasonable points in case the get near the constructors.
At no point in time have I ever rated Massa, he has always been erratic and did nothing to even justify the seat in the first place in the same way people used to say Kubica etc deserved a better seat but none are available.
Sadly his career will end up being a slide down the grid to Sauber, Caterham or some other mid to low team.
He nearly won the title in 2008 without TC, was beating Kimi in 2009 until Hungary without TC in 2009.
To be fair Kimi was not a good driver to judge him on with regards TC. Hadn't he only ever raced with it as well prior to the regulations removing it?
The consistency he had at Mclaren disappeared with TC as well?
More than likely a total coincidence.
Massa got used to it fairly quickly but because he had a mare for one race people remember it.
Soldato
- Joined
- 15 Feb 2003
- Posts
- 10,140
- Location
- Europe
It wasn't just Silverstone - Massa had many spins that year, that the commentators put down to initially his reliance on TC.
That being said Lewis spun 4 times in the GP not too long ago.
That being said Lewis spun 4 times in the GP not too long ago.
Di-resta should head back to DTM, its a shame but Hulky over there has out performed him all last season and after that race in Albert Park to it looks like he will this year as well. But early days yet but it does look that way IMO.
The other thing is, what are your guys views on Lewis moving to Redbull?
no referance there but something to think about.
About massa, here is an onboard of the car during his Qualifying lap. Is it me or does he just break far too late rather than the car behaving bad?
Last edited:
and it's just you the car was poor.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,284
Another one not on the BBC?