More sour grapes - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74327
Malaysian GP 2009 - Race 2/17
- Thread starter jaykay
- Start date
he owned jenson at the race of champions
lets remind our selfs of how fast schumacher was in the wet here he does a lap 10seconds faster than anyone else :O
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEhPHPvXfLY
showing hill how to drive a wet spa with dry tyres
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zYGkKzqco0
So like how Hamilton finished Silverstone '08 like almost 1.5 minutes in front of anyone else.
And how Hamilton overtook Raikonnen at Spa '08 on dry tyres to go on and win the race.
Those two analogous situations strike me as similar to Schumachers.
A lot of it is down to the car and how much downforce there is. Hamilton built up his "rain master" rep because the '07 and '08 McLaren's were some of the highest downforce cars on the grid.
briatore always blames everyone else for his poor car, they havnt built a good car since alonso champoinship.
You havent heard mclaren and ferari blaming the over teams they know they have a **** car. but only renault balme everyone else.
reason why brawn car is so good is its been in production for 18months , every over team has seen this, also with the fia appeal will end up with the diffusers being legal due t the fact the fia dont want to alienate the steward 6 of whom have said its legal.
their just throwing their toys out of their prams cos they didnt think of it, bit like the trick dampeners the renualt tema used during alonso championship that allowed better stablity under power in the corners..
i wish the fia will telll these guys to shut up and get on with the racing
You havent heard mclaren and ferari blaming the over teams they know they have a **** car. but only renault balme everyone else.
reason why brawn car is so good is its been in production for 18months , every over team has seen this, also with the fia appeal will end up with the diffusers being legal due t the fact the fia dont want to alienate the steward 6 of whom have said its legal.
their just throwing their toys out of their prams cos they didnt think of it, bit like the trick dampeners the renualt tema used during alonso championship that allowed better stablity under power in the corners..
i wish the fia will telll these guys to shut up and get on with the racing
No supprises there. Sounds like he is pinning his hopes on them being outlawed at the appeal for Renault to become competetive rather than any major development advances in the near future. Renault & Co must be working on a new diffuser designs, it seems stupid to me not to be doing so. Design a new diffuser and have it banned at the appeal is a small loss compared to not designing a new package, the "dodgy" diffusers demed legal and looking a prize chump.
Briatore blames everyone else apart from himself at the football club he is part owner of as well (QPR). It's pretty annoying as a fan, it looks like we could be on our 7th manager in 18 months if the rumours of the current manager being sacked by Flavio soon are to go by.
They should have listened to Brawn last year. Tough ****, go build a better car with the perfectly legal double decker diffuser.
They should have listened to Brawn last year. Tough ****, go build a better car with the perfectly legal double decker diffuser.
Isn't Toyota tripple decker now?
Problem is that isnt the whole story is it. Picking bits from a story to suit your side is a bit silly.
I don't really see how there could be an 'other side'? The diffuser is legal according to the rulebook and the stewards agree. Anything else really does sound like sour grapes. We all know you'd be saying the same if Red Bull had thought of it.
There lies the problem, you dont know the whole story yet choose to tell us all you are right with the bits you do have.
At least 3 teams went to the FIA with similar proposals, all were turned down as deemed to be against the rules yet come launch time we get 3 teams show up with said diffusers.
Strange that the 3 teams in question were widely tipped to leave F1 due to funding.
At least 3 teams went to the FIA with similar proposals, all were turned down as deemed to be against the rules yet come launch time we get 3 teams show up with said diffusers.
Strange that the 3 teams in question were widely tipped to leave F1 due to funding.
I don't really see how there could be an 'other side'? The diffuser is legal according to the rulebook and the stewards agree. Anything else really does sound like sour grapes. We all know you'd be saying the same if Red Bull had thought of it.
well redbull had controversy over the front suspension set-up but due to the diffuser being a bigger thing their was less media.
all this is him hoping for the fia to not back the stewards, which wilnever happen as the stewards job is to know the rules down to the littlist details.
he just wants to get a car at the top of its game with out putting the efoort in
go put on your tin foil hat and wait for your probe....
the honda/brawn car was designed in 2007/8 when honda were still in the game , so that blows the whole conspiracy theory out of the water
This season has so far just proven to me what I've always thought - F1 sucks.
The fact that Button has come from obscurity last season to dominance this season, and Hamilton is fighting to get a top 10 grid place just shows how much F1 is about the technology in the cars rather than driver ability. I don't doubt that driver skill plays a part, but it's not as big a part as it should be.
When you compare it to the likes of BTCC or WRC where the cars all have to be broadly the same - F1 just looks like a technology showcase rather than a battle of driver skill.
The fact that Button has come from obscurity last season to dominance this season, and Hamilton is fighting to get a top 10 grid place just shows how much F1 is about the technology in the cars rather than driver ability. I don't doubt that driver skill plays a part, but it's not as big a part as it should be.
When you compare it to the likes of BTCC or WRC where the cars all have to be broadly the same - F1 just looks like a technology showcase rather than a battle of driver skill.
how does button not have skill? the cars dont have traction control or half the electronics wrc cars have to keep them gripping.
And if wrc was all about skill how come the skodas when colin mcrae was in it never had ashot at championship???
and btcc? rember last year the white was that was the diesel monstrositys beating the wholefield with full ballast...
please all motorsport is about the technolog accept those racing same cars.
I'm sure if F1 decided to pull balls out of a hat in order to decide who is on pole plus reverse grids and weight penalties then you'd see a similar situation to BTCC. BTCC is so dull they have to add in all these measures in to make it more exciting, and it's still not a patch on what it was in the 90s. It's like WWE racing to me, not real really.
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shh he works for redbull so his opinion is worth more than yours and you arent allowed to post in this thread unless you work for a formula one team
I never said Button didn't have skill, I'm saying last season he was nowhere - fighting for midtable obscurity. Then this season he's won 2 races on the trot from pole - a position I might add that he didn't manage once last season.
Either he's become an championship-winning driver overnight or the car is like 8/10ths of the equation.
In football it's still 11 players a side, the fact one wins means the individuals, teamwork & tactics as a whole was superior. How exciting would football be if one team was obviously hamstrung before the whistle was even blown?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that one manufacturer having more money than another shouldn't have such an impact as it clearly does in F1, as it stops it being a sport (imo).
Either he's become an championship-winning driver overnight or the car is like 8/10ths of the equation.
I don't really wanna turn it into a F1 vs BTCC debate, however I must say this: how can you be happy watching a sport where you know the odds are stacked against people from the outset?
In football it's still 11 players a side, the fact one wins means the individuals, teamwork & tactics as a whole was superior. How exciting would football be if one team was obviously hamstrung before the whistle was even blown?
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that one manufacturer having more money than another shouldn't have such an impact as it clearly does in F1, as it stops it being a sport (imo).
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Button has always been a championship winning driver. His lines are usually perfect and very precise compared to many of the other drivers. I remember a comparrison done between Button, M Schumacher and another driver (can't remember, think it was someone like Senna) Button came out ontop as being the most technical. He was able to make the car perform well without running on the edge. Schumacher was more of a push it do the limits and hope it doesn't break driver. Seeing their different line around the track was fascinating.
There have been plenty of other drivers who have suddenly 'got better' when they've had a decent car which allows them to use their full potential.
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The football comparism is a bit of a silly one really - would you like to tell me how many different teams have won the premiership since it's inception? And how many teams are there in England that have played in the Premiership? The ratio suddenly looks a lot better in F1's favour.
There are plenty of races where I couldn't tell you who is most likely to win. I *expect* Button to win the next race, in the same way I expect Man Utd to win most of their football matches this season, or Chelsea in previous seasons. Last year we had Vettel win a race from pole in a Torro Rosso, completely on merit and there were quite a few different winners over the season.
BTCC is more like a lottery, and in fact partly *is* based on a lottery - that to me isn't true racing. Plato basically won race 3 yesterday after his name was pulled out of a bucket. Great.
Yeah totally, coming 6th and 9th in two races with the rest of the season no higher than 10th is clearly the mark of a championship winning driver... I mean car.
Again you've missed my point entirely. Once again for the cheap seats - I never said Button wasn't capable of winning the championship, I'm saying that going from 10th+ in every single race last season to pole/1st twice this season just proves to me that the car makes too much of a difference. That's my point.