Alonso and Hamilton got immunity for their testifying against McLaren.
Even a few years ago, McLaren had to be bribed for the truth
Malaysian GP 2009 - Race 2/17
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Alonso and Hamilton got immunity for their testifying against McLaren.
Even a few years ago, McLaren had to be bribed for the truth
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Do you have sources for either of these claims . . . and just for the record, no, I'm not a libel lawyerAlonso and Hamilton got immunity for their testifying against McLaren.
Even a few years ago, McLaren had to be bribed for the truth
Do you have sources for either of these claims . . . and just for the record, no, I'm not a libel lawyer
McLaren's lawyer good enough for you?
Or maybe the FIA?
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2726960,00.html..
The bribe being immunity
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Oh i dont know. Williams drive alongside old team mate rosburg would work or with vettle at RB... mmm
What of the BMW M1 Procar Championship? - It served as a support series for Formula One, and included many Formula One drivers of the era in identical cars.
The series ran for two years, with Niki Lauda winning the 1979 season, and Nelson Piquet in 1980.
I'm sure I've read that drivers were fighting for places to compete in the series!
There is a huge difference between a driver having to pay to drive a car in which he wants to show how good he is to prospective future teams, to a driver who is being paid, to drive in a fun championship where not winning does not mean that he will no longer have a career in motorsport.
Honestly, some on here are the media's dream audience..
Take a small white 'lie' that in the heat of intense competition can be understood, but of course not necessarily justified, then put MacLaren on a "must be holier then thou" pedastal, ignore all wrong doings from all other teams/drivers over the years on the criteria that as long as you lie from the outset and never change your story it's perfectly acceptable, but swing wildly the other way to say changing your story from the truth to a lie is akin to murder, then keep building the severity of it up and up until you've dispatched both drivers off to other teams as the only way to possibly escape such an amazingingly unprecendented level of cheating, and we arrive at where many are at today!..
I'm not knocking some opinions, but for the love of god, I'm either amazingly out of touch with 'reality', or some people are just defining a new level for the saying "a storm in a teacup"..
I think my morality detector must be broken, becuase I see 'the lie', I see the context in which is was made, I see a highly competitive sport littered with infractions and wrong doings from all angles, and I just see a blip on a normal season of F1.. I must be crazy..
Take a small white 'lie' that in the heat of intense competition can be understood, but of course not necessarily justified, then put MacLaren on a "must be holier then thou" pedastal, ignore all wrong doings from all other teams/drivers over the years on the criteria that as long as you lie from the outset and never change your story it's perfectly acceptable, but swing wildly the other way to say changing your story from the truth to a lie is akin to murder, then keep building the severity of it up and up until you've dispatched both drivers off to other teams as the only way to possibly escape such an amazingingly unprecendented level of cheating, and we arrive at where many are at today!..
I'm not knocking some opinions, but for the love of god, I'm either amazingly out of touch with 'reality', or some people are just defining a new level for the saying "a storm in a teacup"..
I think my morality detector must be broken, becuase I see 'the lie', I see the context in which is was made, I see a highly competitive sport littered with infractions and wrong doings from all angles, and I just see a blip on a normal season of F1.. I must be crazy..
I think it's barking to think that the majority of teams wouldn't snap up Hamilton in an eyeblink.
Renault wouldn't; Ferrari probably won't. Other than that? I can't see any other team turning him down. Come on: he's arguably the best driver on the grid, and unarguably in the top three.
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Whilst I entirely agree with everything you have written, I think that there are a number of important issues involved here.
As you rightly say, McLaren got caught out lying - in the heat of the moment - in an atmosphere of paranoia following the very unfair penalty imposed on Lewis Hamilton last year - in an attempt to get the 3rd place to which they reasonably felt they were entitled.
The first problem that arises is that in doing so, they caused Jarno Trulli to be unfairly penalised - as a result of their lie.
The other significant problem, to my mind at least, is that in order to avoid the consequences of what seems on the face of it to have been an understandable ploy, they have now sacked and humiliated a formerly loyal employee of very long-standing.
I don't know what the lessons to be learned from all this are other than that:
- one shouldn't tell lies, even if they are "white" lies
- people at McLaren should know the F1 racing regulations and apparently do not
- the stewards at some F1 events are incompetent
- you shouldn't hang out to dry a loyal employee when you screw up
This whole thing is a terrific real-world example of chaos theory in action, so very much better than a butterfly flapping its wings in Tokyo and causing a tornado in Toronto
There are several others who could get the job done, for a tenth of the cost, more respect and without needing to find a muppet of a second driver; look at JB for instance - he has proved all you need is a good car and more than half the work is done!
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Shamelessly stolen from James Allen's blog, because it made me laugh..
A Good Week For:
The English language - Eddie Jordan demonstrates its versatility on TV. Words can be put into any order, with or without verbs.
A Good Week For:
The English language - Eddie Jordan demonstrates its versatility on TV. Words can be put into any order, with or without verbs.
There are several others who could get the job done, for a tenth of the cost, more respect and without needing to find a muppet of a second driver; look at JB for instance - he has proved all you need is a good car and more than half the work is done!
I see no reason to believe that Hamilton needs a muppet of a co-driver - that Alonso couldn't play nice with him and threw his toys out the pram when it turned out he wasn't the best driver in the team reflects badly on Alonso not Hamilton. As for money you can bet that if Button is World Champion this season he'll be paid a whole load more next season.
Actually, does anyone have a decent source for current driver salaries? I've been googling around and I can't find much. This 2009 source reckons:
Which talies with others I've found and puts very little difference between Hamilton and Button.
Which talies with others I've found and puts very little difference between Hamilton and Button.
Whilst I entirely agree with everything you have written, I think that there are a number of important issues involved here.
As you rightly say, McLaren got caught out lying - in the heat of the moment - in an atmosphere of paranoia following the very unfair penalty imposed on Lewis Hamilton last year - in an attempt to get the 3rd place to which they reasonably felt they were entitled.
The first problem that arises is that in doing so, they caused Jarno Trulli to be unfairly penalised - as a result of their lie.
The other significant problem, to my mind at least, is that in order to avoid the consequences of what seems on the face of it to have been an understandable ploy, they have now sacked and humiliated a formerly loyal employee of very long-standing.
I don't know what the lessons to be learned from all this are other than that:
- one shouldn't tell lies, even if they are "white" lies
- people at McLaren should know the F1 racing regulations and apparently do not
- the stewards at some F1 events are incompetent
- you shouldn't hang out to dry a loyal employee when you screw up
This whole thing is a terrific real-world example of chaos theory in action, so very much better than a butterfly flapping its wings in Tokyo and causing a tornado in Toronto
Some very insightful points!
I think the byproduct of penalising Jarno Trulli is the most inexcusable part, and something that for me epitimises bad sportsmanship.
The rest of it, including the Dave Ryan sacking, is IMO just a sorry spiralling of media pressure and a lot of embarassed people (on both sides) being 'forced' into making these idiotic decisions that are in reality token efforts in a pale bid to calm the media frenzy down.
I've seen much worse sportsmanship over the years that has been accepted even if strongly disliked, and everyone has accepted it as merely an unwelcome, but inevitable by-product of such an intense sport.
The difference in this instance is not IMO that a lie was used, or just being caught lying, it was the abundance of information now available to the media, along with the media's sharpened skills in creating much larger controversy then is required to ensure viewing figures remain high.
I'm not excusing MacLaren, I am just trying to treat them with the same moral judgement that I've had to for all F1 teams and their drivers over the years..
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good find. It was reported that button took a 50% paycut to help brawn so hes prolly now one of the lowest paid drivers. Id say by his smile that it was worth it tho
What I find utterly hilarious is people trying to paint Lying Louie like the poor kid doing the teams bidding. Like all of a sudden he's a kid again that the team should protect. I don't care if Dave Ryan suggested the lie, he's a grown man ffs. He knows he was telling a lie.
Nowhere else in life would you be able to use the excuse that you said or did something because someone else told you to do it.
It's blantantly obvious whats happened. Mclaren and lewis cooked this **** up between them. Ryan has taken the fall so little lou lou doesn't do a runner. Lewis's old man kicking up a fuss about tarnishing his son's image etc etc.
Lewis has shown atleast once before he can go against the teams wishes, if he had any actual integrity he would have done it again.
Crying at a press conference won't convince me he actually has a worthy character, shouldering some of the blame so Ryan doesn't take the fall on his jack would.
All they are doing is protecting lewis at any cost so he didn't have anymore sanctions against him and get the hump.
Not only is he a liar, he's a gutless one.
Nowhere else in life would you be able to use the excuse that you said or did something because someone else told you to do it.
It's blantantly obvious whats happened. Mclaren and lewis cooked this **** up between them. Ryan has taken the fall so little lou lou doesn't do a runner. Lewis's old man kicking up a fuss about tarnishing his son's image etc etc.
Lewis has shown atleast once before he can go against the teams wishes, if he had any actual integrity he would have done it again.
Crying at a press conference won't convince me he actually has a worthy character, shouldering some of the blame so Ryan doesn't take the fall on his jack would.
All they are doing is protecting lewis at any cost so he didn't have anymore sanctions against him and get the hump.
Not only is he a liar, he's a gutless one.
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Nick Heidfeld's Man-Bag Support Thread
an epic f1 thread can be seen here:
Nick Heidfeld's Man-Bag Support Thread
whoo 100 posts *\o/*
an epic f1 thread can be seen here:
Nick Heidfeld's Man-Bag Support Thread
whoo 100 posts *\o/*
You could spin everything and anything that negatively if you wish, just remember to apply that to all the drivers you 'rate' and you'll come to the same conclusion with them all.
I'd love to know what he did to you that seems to have personally insulted you to the degree you post such an irrational tirade on him! because you sound like some angry football yob at the moment
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Totally agree with you, he should face the fact that he lied and shoulder the blame.
This article is a good read too http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/matthew_syed/article6054328.ece
Provocative unfounded post is provocative.. and unfounded.