Malaysian GP 2009 - Race 2/17

[Flibster]

Not 100% sure on this but have the teams signed a new Concorde agreement or an equivalent? If they have then aren't McLaren obliged to compete in F1 until the current agreement ends?

But if McLaren actually get banned from races, i.e. told not to turn up, then Lewis still gets punished.

No current Concorde Agreement - running under an letter of understanding at the moment I believe. Although some teams have signed the new Concorde Agreement *Notably Williams and Ferrari - both have got money because of it*

If they get punished and decide not to turn up, then yes - it sucks for Hamilton too.

 

[MarcLister]

I believe they are currently working under a rolling agreement until they can agree on a proper one.

No current Concorde Agreement - running under an letter of understanding at the moment I believe. Although some teams have signed the new Concorde Agreement *Notably Williams and Ferrari - both have got money because of it*

If they get punished and decide not to turn up, then yes - it sucks for Hamilton too.

Cheers both. I wasn't sure because I was confident that there wasn't a new Concorde agreement but an agreement known in another name.

 

[Goksly]

Even if they were kicked out, they would still need to race to fulfill sponsorship deals I would imagine.

 

[MarcLister]

Even if they were kicked out, they would still need to race to fulfill sponsorship deals I would imagine.

Which could become null and void?

 

[steve45]

How do you know that McLaren aren't on the side of the Diffuser 3?
Instant diffuser ban then.

However, if they are going to speak against it - dilemma for the WMSC.

i think i've said it before but in my uneducated opinion, i think the reason mclaren are keeping quiet about the whole thing is because they have heavily invested in developing a diffuser of there own and hoping this will be the leap that takes them up to the front with the others, if done right it must be the only real hope of making any significant gains.

as for all the crap thats going on, as a mclaren fan i naturally dont want to see them get heavily punished, and i absolutley dispise this off track nonsense, i still think all this should have been put to rest as soon as it happened and should never have been taken this far, but to be fair the evidence is there, they did wrong, as annoying all this is, they only have themselves to blame and deserve everything they have coming to them, lets hope they get a stiff but fair penalty and hope this time the learn from the mistakes and tighten up the communication between the senior team members and read that bloody rule book.

 

[ste_bla]

** Random Question **

In F1 I remember a few years ago a driver lost it on warm up, tryin to get heat into tyres and just span it off (on a straight), has button (or rather was it button?)?

 

[Skeeter]

** Random Question **

In F1 I remember a few years ago a driver lost it on warm up, tryin to get heat into tyres and just span it off (on a straight), has button (or rather was it button?)?

It was Barichello if I remember correctly, in a BAR or Lucky Strike branded Honda.

 

[arknor]

** Random Question **

In F1 I remember a few years ago a driver lost it on warm up, tryin to get heat into tyres and just span it off (on a straight), has button (or rather was it button?)?

has button what?
was it button i dont know but if you mess up on the warm up lap you have to start at the back of the grid anyway?

 

[mk17]

I think Montoya did it, and pretty sure Fisi too - iirc. Hopefully less likely this year with the return to slicks, but ya never know.

on a different note, I hope Brawn do it again in China, Barrichello this time. And the hammy/mclaren issue gets resolved without *too much* silliness and we get back to racing.

As for the diffusor issues - I'm betting they'll allow the Brawns/Williams et al to keep their designs. Particularly since Brawn himself had brought it up with the technical working group a year ago or thereabouts and he was shouted down.

 

[dannyjo22]

It was Barichello if I remember correctly, in a BAR or Lucky Strike branded Honda.

It was Button, put his foot down when the car infront was braking. He then took to the grass to avoid an accident. Can't remember off the top of my head but I think it was in the benetton/renault.

 

[Overlag]

You say to-may-to, I say tom-ar-to.

if it was a mclaren id say it was a hidden tank

** Random Question **

In F1 I remember a few years ago a driver lost it on warm up, tryin to get heat into tyres and just span it off (on a straight), has button (or rather was it button?)?

DC did it at monza 94?? or 95??. He was on pole and threw it away on the warm up lap to the grid.

 

[FrankJH]

. For the most part when MS cheated he got banned for it

Apart from when it mattered the most - to win his first WDC , that is the primary example of why all the other 6 are tainted and will remain so

.
Lewis hamilton and his father are all but the boss in that team now and is quite apparent how **** scared the team have become to upset either of them.

Sorry thats complete bs - yes LH is a VERY important componant to McLaren undoubtedly , but he is far from the boss, even though he does have a lot more power than someone at the start of their career should have

.
Honda lied and got a 2 race ban which affected the drivers. Mclaren lied and got the points removed for one race and may well face further sanctions while the driver will not in all likelyhood.

Considering their grid position at the time - how many points do you honestly think those race bans cost Honda? I would say that its unlikely to have cost them as many points as McLaren just lost

But if McLaren actually get banned from races, i.e. told not to turn up, then Lewis still gets punished.

I was thinking along the lines of McLaren can still race for DWC points - but any CWC points get scrapped

But yes the sponsorship deals would go out the window Im sure (or they would have to have them on the car/overalls etc for no gain at all)

DC did it at monza 94?? or 95??. He was on pole and threw it away on the warm up lap to the grid.

Didnt DC throw it into the inside wall of the pit lane exit after getting pole somewhere? Maybe Im mixing up events but I remember something along those lines happening in a Williams

 

[Dutch Guy]

Sorry thats complete bs - yes LH is a VERY important componant to McLaren undoubtedly , but he is far from the boss, even though he does have a lot more power than someone at the start of their career should have

Yep, if he was 'the boss' he would have the balls to have his own opinion instead of just telling the stewards what he was told.

LH is a driver, he gets paid to drive fast and if he needs to say something McLaren can dictate what he must say.

 

[stockhausen]

For the most part when [Michael Schumacher] cheated he got banned for it. Sometimes not long enough but he still got banned.

Apart from when it mattered the most - to win his first WDC ...

To be honest, the FIA effectively gave the green light to this practice when they didn't disqualify Alain Prost (1989) and then Ayrton Senna (1990) for doing exactly the same thing as Schumacher did to Damon Hill (1994) and Jacques Villeneuve (1997). It may have happened before, I don't know?

All publicity is good publicity - the FIA is in the business of publicity, not sportsmanship.

 

[NeilMick]

Yep, if he was 'the boss' he would have the balls to have his own opinion instead of just telling the stewards what he was told.

LH is a driver, he gets paid to drive fast and if he needs to say something McLaren can dictate what he must say.

 

[machinauk]

Didnt DC throw it into the inside wall of the pit lane exit after getting pole somewhere? Maybe Im mixing up events but I remember something along those lines happening in a Williams

He was leading in Adelaide in 95 when he went into the pitlane wall, could be that your thinking of.

 

[Overlag]

He was leading in Adelaide in 95 when he went into the pitlane wall, could be that your thinking of.

yup, it was oil put down by someone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xl6QV85N7g

DC's monza crash isnt on youtube

 

[Housey]

This thread demonstrates examples of what I like to call the English disease. Build someone up often when they don't deserve it and when they do actually prove themselves to have some qualities spend the rest of your life knocking them down again and telling everyone who is willing to listen that they are not all that and how horrible they are as a person....even though this is based on nothing more than other peoples opinions as, well, you've never really met them or come into contact with them.

Oh for pragmatism...

 

[MarcLister]

if it was a mclaren id say it was a hidden tank

Well of course.

I was thinking along the lines of McLaren can still race for DWC points - but any CWC points get scrapped

But yes the sponsorship deals would go out the window Im sure (or they would have to have them on the car/overalls etc for no gain at all)

If McLaren are kicked out of the constructor's championship then yes they could but if they actually get banned from races, as BAR were over the tank saga, then they'd lose a lot of potential driver points as well.

 

[dannyjo22]

Apart from when it mattered the most - to win his first WDC , that is the primary example of why all the other 6 are tainted and will remain so

To be fair he had to be given the benefit of the doubt on the first of many suspect moves

Sorry thats complete bs - yes LH is a VERY important componant to McLaren undoubtedly , but he is far from the boss, even though he does have a lot more power than someone at the start of their career should have

The fact that they have had a team player of many years take the fall shows how much power team lewis has. That they threatened to walk away on morality grounds had mclaren poo themselves. It's a real shame no one at mclaren has the balls to call his bluff because in reality there is nowhere to go. That mclaren are prepared to go along with the whole misled line shows who holds all the cards.

In reality Mclaren do, where would lewis go thats a better long term prospect than Mclaren. Ferrari no doubt have alonso in the bag, Renault no longer look the team capable of winning.

Perhaps it's not fair to say Team lewis are running the show, more like Mclaren are forgetting they hold all the aces.

Considering their grid position at the time - how many points do you honestly think those race bans cost Honda? I would say that its unlikely to have cost them as many points as McLaren just lost

More than mclaren, they lost a 3rd place for jenson and a 5th for sato at imola where they got a DSQ. Then they couldn't race at Spain or Monaco. Just from imola they lost more points than Mclaren scored so far.