Malaysian GP 2009 - Race 2/17

Housey said:
This thread demonstrates examples of what I like to call the English disease. Build someone up often when they don't deserve it and when they do actually prove themselves to have some qualities spend the rest of your life knocking them down again and telling everyone who is willing to listen that they are not all that and how horrible they are as a person....even though this is based on nothing more than other peoples opinions as, well, you've never really met them or come into contact with them.

Oh for pragmatism... :D
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this is why i didnt "love him" and why i hate the media from 2007-08. making him out to be senna etc. Building him up to a massive star before he even deserved it. now everyone is against him cos he isnt that "star" anymore.

He wasnt a star before, and just as he turned into a star, his car turned into a honda wanabee. Kinda like Hill finnally winning a WDC then heading off to arrows. Horrible turn around. Hill didnt get picked on as much, so why Hamilton?
 
Overlag said:
this is why i didnt "love him" and why i hate the media from 2007-08. making him out to be senna etc. Building him up to a massive star before he even deserved it. now everyone is against him cos he isnt that "star" anymore.

He wasnt a star before, and just as he turned into a star, his car turned into a honda wanabee. Kinda like Hill finnally winning a WDC then heading off to arrows. Horrible turn around. Hill didnt get picked on as much, so why Hamilton?
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Wasnt he a star in the motorsports world before F1, just in different Formula's hence wasnt known by the general public? There surely is no denying he is an exceptional racer. Yes the media overhype all the time (which I hate), so I guess thats why the backlash is inevitable - the public who were sick of the hype vent that against the whoever was in the spotlight (in this case Hamilton).
Im finding this excessive attacking of Hamilton by the press/certain members of the forum absolutely ridiculous. Mountain, molehill.

dannyjo22 said:
To be fair he had to be given the benefit of the doubt on the first of many suspect moves :D
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Your double standards are hilarious. One that discredits your entire argument, Im sure most people on the forum see this too!
 
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Overlag said:
Kinda like Hill finnally winning a WDC then heading off to arrows. Horrible turn around. Hill didnt get picked on as much, so why Hamilton?
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Hill still got hammered when he made mistakes in the arrows and later the jordan.

The trouble with this country and probably many others is when you openly blame the media for a set of circumstances in your life they outright hunt you down. As soon as Hamilton made the statement about leaving the country because of the media he became a target.

As soon as he starts winning again and Button isn't they will forget all about it, until the next time.

This time though I get the feeling from reading decent f1 articles and journalists that a lot of the pitlane isn't happy about Ryan taking the fall for this. It can be very bad for you in F1 when the pitlane turns against you.
 
Christo said:
Your double standards are hilarious. One that discredits your entire argument, Im sure most people on the forum see this too!
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I was joking, hence the laughing smiley. You won't find anyone on here more disgusted with MS's conduct over the years and downright cheating
and disregard for another drivers safety. He had no respect for his fellow competitors.

With regards to that Australia move many many experts at the time where unsure as to whether he deliberately did it or not. Clearly with hindsight it's far easier to make a judgement call.
 
Overlag said:
now everyone is against him cos he isnt that "star" anymore.
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Not true. Not everyone is against him. But I learnt long ago that there is no point in trying to convince F1 fans of anything other than what they think. I see one person in here who has an outspoken irrational hate of Hamilton. Danny even stated he was going to give it a rest.. looks like a short nap to me. But if it makes Danny happy to keep on posting then I'm not going to try and convince him otherwise.

Just remember who is the outspoken minority, and who is the silent majority.
 
dannyjo22 said:
To be fair he had to be given the benefit of the doubt on the first of many suspect moves :D.
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It was so blatant I dont believe he deserved benefit of the doubt


dannyjo22 said:
The fact that they have had a team player of many years take the fall shows how much power team lewis has. That they threatened to walk away on morality grounds had mclaren poo themselves. It's a real shame no one at mclaren has the balls to call his bluff because in reality there is nowhere to go. That mclaren are prepared to go along with the whole misled line shows who holds all the cards
In reality Mclaren do, where would lewis go thats a better long term prospect than Mclaren. Ferrari no doubt have alonso in the bag, Renault no longer look the team capable of winning.

Perhaps it's not fair to say Team lewis are running the show, more like Mclaren are forgetting they hold all the aces.
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I can see how you are getting to that point - but I dont believe that to be the case.

Maybe McLaren under Whitmarsh knew the team had steared Lewis wrong , simple as!! I think you would be right if Ron was still running the show, but with the change of leadership....I dont think its so cut and dried as you make out

dannyjo22 said:
More than mclaren, they lost a 3rd place for jenson and a 5th for sato at imola where they got a DSQ. Then they couldn't race at Spain or Monaco. Just from imola they lost more points than Mclaren scored so far.
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fair enough - I didnt think Honda lost that many points , but even so its a different kettle of fish entirely. Honda had a performance advantage which was found out. McLaren won 4th place fair and square, by all means give Trulli back his place and give McLaren their rightful 4th place - as they won it fair and square in the race (and then by all means have an enquiry as to the ethics of what happened with the Stewards)

But to DSQ McLaren for what happened after the race - and then have another investigation also - sorry thats just getting at the same team again to hamper them as much as possible


edit - I remember Hill's Hungary drive in the Arrows , so gutwrenching after outclassing everyone all weekend over a 50p part ):
 
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dannyjo22 said:
The fact that they have had a team player of many years take the fall shows how much power team lewis has. That they threatened to walk away on morality grounds had mclaren poo themselves. It's a real shame no one at mclaren has the balls to call his bluff because in reality there is nowhere to go. That mclaren are prepared to go along with the whole misled line shows who holds all the cards.
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One can only hope that someone from McLaren reads this forum, now that you have pointed out to a £ multi-million organisation that are too stupid to spot the obvious the error of their ways ;)
 
gord said:
Danny even stated he was going to give it a rest.. looks like a short nap to me. But if it makes Danny happy to keep on posting then I'm not going to try and convince him otherwise.

Just remember who is the outspoken minority, and who is the silent majority.
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If people respond to my posts I will do them the courtousy of responding back. Why don't people responding the other way give it a rest as well. Its an f1 debate/discussion I don't know why people take it so personally like calling their fav driver a cheat somehow insults their family.

To me it seems more that the fanboys of a certain driver just cannot take the critism he's getting. Oki I was wrong Hamilton was misled, the team lied to him and he didn't realise. He was scared to do any different despite being asked many times. He didn't cheat Trulli, the team misled him to the importance or the issue and Bernie is wrong to suggest it's fraud as money is involved.

Your all right, I'm wrong. Sorry.

FrankJH said:
Maybe McLaren under Whitmarsh knew the team had steared Lewis wrong , simple as!! I think you would be right if Ron was still running the show, but with the change of leadership....I dont think its so cut and dried as you make out
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It's interesting that a few articles have pointed to the order or advice coming from dennis.

stockhausen said:
One can only hope that someone from McLaren reads this forum, now that you have pointed out to a £ multi-million organisation that are too stupid to spot the obvious the error of their ways ;)
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Obviously, I've never been caught cheating :D They clearly are beyond stupid year after year.

As for the Hill arrows drive even though as JV fan I was bouncing I did feel a lot for Hill. Yes 95% of it was down to the tyres but he still should have won that race. Yet it balances out because a similar incident happened in 0z in 96 with Villeneuve and Hill was the one that benefitted. Great race though.
 
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dannyjo22 said:
It's interesting that a few articles have pointed to the order or advice coming from dennis.
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Do we know these articles are factual though? No way of knowing.....



dannyjo22 said:
Yet it balances out because a similar incident happened in 0z in 96 with Villeneuve and Hill was the one that benefitted. Great race though.
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No way is that comparable

96 they where in the same car - and very close either way

97 Villeneuve was in far superior car all round and Hill wiped the floor with him at Hungary (apart from the last 3 laps when Hill had the issue)
 
FrankJH said:
No way is that comparable

96 they where in the same car - and very close either way

97 Villeneuve was in far superior car all round and Hill wiped the floor with him at Hungary (apart from the last 3 laps when Hill had the issue)
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He wiped the floor with everyone due to the bridgestone tyre. The goodyear was blistering after 2 laps. Schumacher in particular had a woeful time with tyres. Granted it was nice to see a race go bridgestones way for once.

Good drive and would have been great to have on the CV, wins with 3 different teams.

In some ways I'd say it's comparable because it was JV's first race and he overtook Hill and then beat him until the re-start then overtook him again. It's rare to see that these days with the same equipment.

I've always thought Hill was really under rated. His one problem was he was racing against one of the all time greats. As a bench mark he doesn't measure up well but then he is being compared to possibly the greatest F1 driver ever.
 
dannyjo22 said:
To me it seems more that the fanboys of a certain driver just cannot take the critism he's getting. Oki I was wrong Hamilton was misled, the team lied to him and he didn't realise. He was scared to do any different despite being asked many times. He didn't cheat Trulli, the team misled him to the importance or the issue and Bernie is wrong to suggest it's fraud as money is involved.

Your all right, I'm wrong. Sorry.
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Perhaps you need to accept that the majority arent fanboys. In contrast to your very one sided point of view. Almost every individual on here accepts he did something wrong and deserved to be punished.. Perhaps your should accept the fact that you are the anti Hamilton fanatic, that your views arent the most balanced/rational.;)

dannyjo22 said:
I've always thought Hill was really under rated. His one problem was he was racing against one of the all time greats. As a bench mark he doesn't measure up well but then he is being compared to possibly the greatest F1 cheat ever.
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duly corrected.:p
 
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Christo said:
Perhaps you need to accept that the majority arent fanboys. In contrast to your very one sided point of view. Almost every individual on here accepts he did something wrong and deserved to be punished.. Perhaps your should accept the fact that you are the anti Hamilton fanatic, that your views arent the most balanced/rational.;)
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Hamilton has nothing to do with it. I am anti cheating. I have spoken out on here against Alonso's antics and mclaren, Schumachers at ferrari etc etc, Raikkonens brake testing of montoya, I'm not a fan of any of the driver tactics with regards overtaking and cutting off the road. I was always a huge villeneuve fan but the move he pulled at the start of suzuka in 97 will always leave a bad taste in my mouth. It set the ball rolling for schumacher to do it on a race start with regular frequency. Or the pointing of the car at a start across the direction on the no2 grid sitter.

Anti hamilton fanatic, BS I hate them all equally regardless of driver name when they pull that sort of crap.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Hamilton has nothing to do with it. I am anti cheating. I have spoken out on here against Alonso's antics and mclaren, Schumachers at ferrari etc etc, Raikkonens brake testing of montoya, I'm not a fan of any of the driver tactics with regards overtaking and cutting off the road. I was always a huge villeneuve fan but the move he pulled at the start of suzuka in 97 will always leave a bad taste in my mouth. It set the ball rolling for schumacher to do it on a race start with regular frequency. Or the pointing of the car at a start across the direction on the no2 grid sitter.

Anti hamilton fanatic, BS I hate them all equally regardless of driver name when they pull that sort of crap.
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I simply dont believe you. Your vitriol towards Hamilton is extremely OTT and your constant praise of Schumacher (lets not forget one of the biggest if not ther biggest cheats in F1 (But also a good driver)) rather shows you up.
 
Christo said:
I simply dont believe you. Your vitriol towards Hamilton is extremely OTT and your constant praise of Schumacher (lets not forget one of the biggest if not ther biggest cheats in F1 (But also a good driver)) rather shows you up.
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Your making stuff up now, you just want to dislike me. Find this constant praise of Schumacher. Go on, good luck trying to find it.

Your above appraisal of schumacher would be exactly the same as mine a cheat but a good driver. No actually I say he was a dirty **** that was prepared to use his car as a weapon, the worst lack of respect for your fellow drivers you can get. His punishment in 97 was laughable. Monaco even more laughable.

I wait with interest though to find my constant praise of schumacher. Feel free to apologise when you can't find it.
 
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