Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Skeeter said:
Isn't that what people wanted?
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People want racing, not drivers mugging their teammates who've obeyed instructions from the team to wind back engines and ride out the race etc. on the understanding that the racing was finished.

Given Mark had been holding Vettel at bay quite happily until he was told to turn things down, suggests he had the capability to stay out front if they were allowed to race and both knew that's what they were doing.
 
Skeeter said:
Perhaps he should have ignored the team orders and fought his way past?
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He overtook a few times, hamilton put his foot down and got the place back again, merc didn't want that squabble to run them out of tyres, fuel or bodywork. It isn't a nice situation for anyone but nico had plenty of chances and he couldn't make them stick.
 
Skeeter said:
Perhaps he should have ignored the team orders and fought his way past?
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I think he would have been allowed to keep the position had he made his two overtakes stick shortly after the final pitstops.

So in a way it's his own fault.

Why on earth he wasn't waiting until the second DRS zone to overtake Hamilton I don't know.
 
Kenai said:
People want racing, not drivers mugging their teammates who've obeyed instructions from the team to wind back engines and ride out the race etc. on the understanding that the racing was finished.

Given Mark had been holding Vettel at bay quite happily until he was told to turn things down, suggests he had the capability to stay out front if they were allowed to race and both knew that's what they were doing.
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This ^
 
Kenai said:
People want racing, not drivers mugging their teammates who've obeyed instructions from the team to wind back engines and ride out the race etc. on the understanding that the racing was finished.

Given Mark had been holding Vettel at bay quite happily until he was told to turn things down, suggests he had the capability to stay out front if they were allowed to race and both knew that's what they were doing.
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dalin80 said:
He overtook a few times, hamilton put his foot down and got the place back again, merc didn't want that squabble to run them out of tyres, fuel or bodywork. It isn't a nice situation for anyone but nico had plenty of chances and he couldn't make them stick.
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englishpremier said:
I think he would have been allowed to keep the position had he made his two overtakes stick shortly after the final pitstops.

So in a way it's his own fault.

Why on earth he wasn't waiting until the second DRS zone to overtake Hamilton I don't know.
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These.

Rosberg has made it clear this year he's faster than everyone thought, but also showed he's a much better team player than Seb. Ross also made it clear that he'd be disappointed if Rosberg wasn't at least slightly miffed with the decision, showing great command and appreciation from a team principle perspective.

kd
 
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I feel it was a little unfair on Rosberg because Hamilton was only able to stay in front of him by driving in a manner that would have seen him run out of fuel before the race ended. Whilst it's true he was keeping in front, it wasn't a remotely sustainable position for him and were that not an internal battle I suspect Merc would have told him to just relinquish the place rather than fight and run out of fuel.

No doubt Rosberg feels somewhat aggrieved if there was a split strategy too and he was told he was on the heavier one for a workable dry race only to be knobbled and forced to stay behind the guy who didn't have enough fuel.

I will be very interested to see the laptime charts appear for both of these battles to see just how much the times changed during these periods.
 
At the end of the day Webbers frustration is ultimately that even when the team try and help him he still can't beat Vettel.

Either Mark turned his car back up and fought Vettel, and lost, or he didn't and lost out, which is his own fault.

Vettel beat him, fair and square. Same team, same car, same opportunity to ignore team orders and race his team mate flat out. At the end of the day Webber was beaten by Vettel, again, and it hurts.
 
Some of the anti Vettel, anti Hamilton posts on here are laughable.

Regarding RBR here are the facts (taken from F1 Technical)

- Webber drove to target laptimes asked by his engineer. Vettel believed this was too slow and said to his engineer "Mark is too slow, get him out of the way". The team replied it was just halfway in the race.
- After the final stop, both drivers were said through the radio (the message to Vettel was broadcast for everyone) to keep strategy "multi21", meaning car 2 stays ahead of car 1
- Webber turned down his engine as requested and was told Vettel would not pass
- Vettel ignored the"multi21" order/request and kept pushing to get Webber
- Webber then asked his team again what was the situation, nothing that Vettel was closing. He was told again that positions would be maintained (and the team still believed it would happen this way)
- Vettel attacks and passes Webber, displeasing Newey and Horner on the pitlane. Horner said after the race "Vettel took it in his own hands".
- Vettel went on to explain in different way, going from "it was not intentional" to "if I knew it would end like this I would not have taken so much risk to pass Mark".
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Vettel then lied about it post race.

In any sport, people admire sportsmanship. Everyone likes a gentleman and sadly Vettel let himself down a little bit today. Hell, even Ted Kravitz thinks a little bit less of the guy now and he does genuinely seem to like him.

All said and done, he won and may well go on to win the championship, but so did Chick Hicks and look how that turned out ;)

Regarding Mercedes - what would you have them do at their main sponsors home race, risk a crash? Like it or not, it's a business and after the last few years a 3rd/4th is worth a huge amount to the team, especially at this venue.

Both drivers had raced up to the last 10-12 laps and in the interests of the team brought it home safely. Nico even made a few passes, but could not make it stick. In the end, Nico respected the team over himself and remained in fourth, as much as both drivers were frustrated by it.

I also genuinely believe that Mercedes would have given the same order if the drivers were the other way around but I am not so sure of Hamilton being compliant.
 
Anyone else think that it might have been Weber that caused Alonso's wing to finally fall off. He pulled across in front of Alonso then a second or two the front splitter destroyed itself. Maybe the turbulent air from Weber's rear wing?

Stupid for Ferrari not bringing him in straight away, bet they are looking back in hindsight with frustration!
 
morfmedia said:
Anyone else think that it might have been Weber that caused Alonso's wing to finally fall off. He pulled across in front of Alonso then a second or two the front splitter destroyed itself. Maybe the turbulent air from Weber's rear wing?

Stupid for Ferrari not bringing him in straight away, bet they are looking back in hindsight with frustration!
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Yep, it was the high speed air coming out of the difusser that dislodged the wing. Had he not got that close to the rear of another car for a few laps he might have got away with it until the pit stop for tyres. It was unlucky for him.
 
I'm surprised teams don't log on to the forum mid-race.

Lots of armchair tactical experts here :p
 
"If you no longer go for a gap..."

I just don't see what the problem is with someone using everything they can to win a race? The opportunity was there, Seb took it.

There's nothing unfair about it. Mark had all the same tools available to him and came out second best. The moment Seb made it clear he was going for the and pass that was it, gloves were off, chips were down, it was a straight fight, and Vettel won.
 
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