Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Matteh said:
I don't think anyone is saying that Vettel wasn't a dick. But I think people are saying that if webber genuinely had the pace he should have protected himself. He isn't dumb, he knew Seb was coming for him.
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This.

Vettel is a selfish arse and a childish brat who throws his toys out of the pram. Anyone winning other than him would have been a preferable result to most people, including me.

But he saw an opportunity to win, and took it, however "unsporting" it was. And at the end of the day, when we line the 24 best drivers in the world up on a grid and ask them to race, isn't that what we want to see?
 
smr said:
hah, if you think he's unhappy that he won you don't understand Vettel... of course he's happy, because he knows that in a few weeks time this'll all have died down and been forgotten about and all he's interested in is winning the WDC, ruthlessly if needed.

Anything he says is all PR talk he's been told to say from Red Bull. I don't for one minute think he's genuinely sorry for winning and passing Mark.
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Agreed 100%.
Vettel knew what he was doing.
He is a highly intelligent guy (even though he is young).
The guy likes to win at any/all costs...just like MSc before him.

MSc is the most successful driver in F1 and he also happened to have more penalties/bans to his name than any other driver. Vettel appears to have studied MSc's playbook and is playing the game, just as MSc would've.

Vettel's win at all costs attitude has already seen him win 3 titles in a row. I think he must be overwhelming favourite to win his 4th and become the youngest ever 4-time champ.

Another thing that I was thinking about today is that Vettel has competed in 6 F1 WDCs. He has won 3 of them. That's unprecedented. [Most top drivers don't win 3 titles in their entire career, let alone in 6 seasons]
 
Matteh said:
To be fair, I don't really think that is what anyone is saying really.
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Either Mark turned his car back up and fought Vettel, and lost, or he didn't and lost out, which is his own fault.

Vettel beat him, fair and square. Same team, same car, same opportunity to ignore team orders and race his team mate flat out.


...seems that way to me.
 
Matteh said:
I don't think anyone is saying that Vettel wasn't a dick. But I think people are saying that if webber genuinely had the pace he should have protected himself. He isn't dumb, he knew Seb was coming for him.
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No he never, he asked the team twice and was told he would not be racing Seb, how hard is that to understand?
 
Neo4 said:
not a bad thing, my mate hardly uses it anyway and dont mind, go ahead, report it. Would be only what is expected :)
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As a genuine question, didn't you operate the autoclaves or something?

You seem to be implying that you have full access to the race telemetry for both cars - I'm surprised that freely even within a team ?
 
Skeeter said:
This.

Vettel is a selfish arse and a childish brat who throws his toys out of the pram. Anyone winning other than him would have been a preferable result to most people, including me.

But he saw an opportunity to win, and took it, however "unsporting" it was. And at the end of the day, when we line the 24 best drivers in the world up on a grid and ask them to race, isn't that what we want to see?
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We want to see them racing, not waiting for them to stop racing and then nip past when the other driver has their pants down.

If team orders were contractually binding (I don't know if they are or not), then you'd expect the team to punish someone breaking them in the same way as someone overtaking under yellow flags would expect to be punished for breaking the rules of the sport they are bound to follow.

I can't see RBR punishing Vettel but it would certainly help the team's (now significantly) tarnished image.
 
Skeeter said:
Ah OK.

Was it investigated with no further action, or just not investigated?
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Nothing from what I've seen. Usually Ted is pretty hot on those sorts of incidents, so it was weird.

Dare I be the first person to suggest the Ferrari.. internat... ;)
 
Neo4 said:
not a bad thing, my mate hardly uses it anyway and dont mind, go ahead, report it. Would be only what is expected :)
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No desire to report you, but if you wanted to come back on here why not apologise for your tantrum and maybe they would let you rather than using another members account?
 
Mr Men said:
No he never, he asked the team twice and was told he would not be racing Seb, how hard is that to understand?
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Hence the dick comment. Surely, when your teammate is virtually banging wheels with you it's fairly obvious he wants to come past.

I'm not saying its right, or how it should be. But if webber had been inclined he could have raced him harder.
 
Matteh said:
As a genuine question, didn't you operate the autoclaves or something?

You seem to be implying that you have full access to the race telemetry for both cars - I'm surprised that freely even within a team ?
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3 years ago yes, i wrote the cure cycles for them. Very well at that :) We were losing a lot of parts through curing until i changed the way we worked and cured carbon. Involved a lot of money spent and a lot of risk on my behalf [ if i had got it wrong i would have been gone] i didnt!

Soon got moved onto other things and now sit happily in the production office planning upgrades for car parts etc.
 
Overtaking under yellows breaks the regulations of the sport and is governed by the FIA, breaking team orders if they are part of your contract would be a breach of your contract and is governed by the team. What a bizarre comparison :confused:
 
Mr Men said:
No desire to report you, but if you wanted to come back on here why not apologise for your tantrum and maybe they would let you rather than using another members account?
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Because i still have access to the forums to browse and have done for the last 6 months. My mate is sitting next to me watching a movie and i am on his account. Apologise, yeh maybe but i still standby what i said so that would be worse than not apologising surely?
 
Skeeter said:
Overtaking under yellows breaks the regulations of the sport and is governed by the FIA, breaking team orders if they are part of your contract would be a breach of your contract and is governed by the team. What a bizarre comparison :confused:
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You missed the point entirely, how typical of you.

You're bound to the rules of the sport. Break them, get punished.

You're bound to the direcions of your team. Break them, get punished.

The point was thus: Vettel clearly disobeyed the team. Punishing him for doing so will help maintain the reputation of the team in exactly the same way as upholding the rules of the sport maintains its reputation.

If someone gets away with breaking the rules it makes a mockery of the rules. If someone disobeys the team it makes a mockery of the team.
 
Matteh said:
Hence the dick comment. Surely, when your teammate is virtually banging wheels with you it's fairly obvious he wants to come past.

I'm not saying its right, or how it should be. But if webber had been inclined he could have raced him harder.
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I'm starting to see why people don't see my point. What happened up to Mark realizing Seb was going to try to pass is very different to what happened after.

As soon as Mark realised what was happening it was a straight fight. And not only did Seb get past, but he then drove off at almost 1 second a lap.
 
Neo4 said:
3 years ago yes, i wrote the cure cycles for them. Very well at that :) We were losing a lot of parts through curing until i changed the way we worked and cured carbon. Involved a lot of money spent and a lot of risk on my behalf [ if i had got it wrong i would have been gone] i didnt!

Soon got moved onto other things and now sit happily in the production office planning upgrades for car parts etc.
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I see - nice work! Thanks for taking the time to answer :)
 
Skeeter said:
I'm starting to see why people don't see my point. What happened up to Mark realizing Seb was going to try to pass is very different to what happened after.

As soon as Mark realised what was happening it was a straight fight. And not only did Seb get past, but he then drove off at almost 1 second a lap.
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Why did it take Vettel up until Webber was told to slow down to beat him in this so called 'straight fight' then?

Why couldn't Vettel close up the 4 second gap before that?

Could it perhaps be that what occurred towards the end wasn't actually a straight fight at all?
 
DRZ said:
You missed the point entirely, how typical of you.

You're bound to the rules of the sport. Break them, get punished.

You're bound to the direcions of your team. Break them, get punished.

The point was thus: Vettel clearly disobeyed the team. Punishing him for doing so will help maintain the reputation of the team in exactly the same way as upholding the rules of the sport maintains its reputation.

If someone gets away with breaking the rules it makes a mockery of the rules. If someone disobeys the team it makes a mockery of the team.
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OK, I see your point. It was the statement that they should be punished "in the same way" that made no sense.

The problem here is we don't know what's in the contracts.
 
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