Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19

Neo4 · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:29

no problem. Try to stay a little more calm in these threads now

Maybe the break did do me good [ in the past me and Mr Men would have been going at it hammer and tong] Now i read and try to see things from their point of view, its more enjoyable a place.

[Maybe the mods will let me comeback, well i know they will as it was a self imposed ban] for 6 months.

Maybe they wont, who knows!

Matteh · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:30

Kenai said:
Why did it take Vettel up until Webber was told to slow down to beat him in this so called 'straight fight' then?

Why couldn't Vettel close up the 4 second gap before that?

What I think Skeeter is saying is that at the point Vettel came back and was trying to pass then webber should have realised all bets were off.

Mr Men · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:30

Kenai said:
Why did it take Vettel up until Webber was told to slow down to beat him in this so called 'straight fight' then?

Why couldn't Vettel close up the 4 second gap before that?

Could it be perhaps be that what occurred towards the end wasn't actually a straight fight at all?

Shhhh

Nevermind that also in backing off Webber would lose tyre temps, pressure, brakes temps probably as well meaning when a flat out Seb at racing pace sneaked up the inside it was never a fair fight.

Skeeter · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:31

Kenai said:
Why did it take Vettel up until Webber was told to slow down to beat him in this so called 'straight fight' then?

Why couldn't Vettel close up the 4 second gap before that?

Could it perhaps be that what occurred towards the end wasn't actually a straight fight at all?

I don't know. Did Webber slow or did Vettel just step on it?

If it was Webber slowing then why didn't he speed back up to "easily keeping Seb behind" pace as soon as Vettel appeared in the DRS zone?

Kenai · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:32

Matteh said:
What I think Skeeter is saying is that at the point Vettel came back and was trying to pass then webber should have realised all bets were off.

And what we are saying is that such a situation is never going to result in a fair fight. Especially after being doubly assured by your team no racing is happening.

DRZ · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:32

Skeeter said:
OK, I see your point. It was the statement that they should be punished "in the same way" that made no sense.

The problem here is we don't know what's in the contracts.

"In the same way" was regarding the expectation. Perfect sense was made.

The doubt about the content of contracts was also covered in that post.

Neo4 · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:32

Mr Men said:
Shhhh

Nevermind that also in backing off Webber would lose tyre temps, pressure, brakes temps probably as well meaning when a flat out Seb at racing pace sneaked up the inside it was never a fair fight.

Wasnt Seb also on fresher tyres?

Skeeter · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:32

Matteh said:
What I think Skeeter is saying is that at the point Vettel came back and was trying to pass then webber should have realised all bets were off.

Yes. From that point on, fair fight. From when Mark realised what was going on, which presumably would be when he got within DRS and started gaining. Or at the very latest when he was right behind him.

Kenai · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:33

Skeeter said:
I don't know. Did Webber slow or did Vettel just step on it?

If it was Webber slowing then why didn't he speed back up to "easily keeping Seb behind" pace as soon as Vettel appeared in the DRS zone?

Because he spoke to the team again and they told him, for the second time, that no racing was to occur and to proceed as told.

We've been over this already.

DRZ · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:35

Skeeter said:
I don't know. Did Webber slow or did Vettel just step on it?

If it was Webber slowing then why didn't he speed back up to "easily keeping Seb behind" pace as soon as Vettel appeared in the DRS zone?

IF?

Are you for real? Here it is in bold, underlined capital letters for you:

BOTH DRIVERS WERE TOLD TO BACK IT RIGHT OFF. ONLY ONE OF THEM DID

I thought that point was absolutely completely entirely utterly and unequivocally crystal clear from the outset?

One driver was backing off as instructed. The other was at maximum attack, directly against instructions.

Is that how you define a fair, straight fight?

smr · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:35

Skeeter said:
Well I assumed the Vettel hate bandwagon had run its course.

I actually liked vettel before this race, not so sure now..

Kenai · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:35

Neo4 said:
Wasnt Seb also on fresher tyres?

Webber had just come out of the pits the lap before and Vettel was on 1 lap older tyres I think

Mr Men · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:36

I wish Alonso had done this to Massa just to see Skeeter defend him against the hate bandwagon....

Matteh · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:37

Kenai said:
And what we are saying is that such a situation is never going to result in a fair fight. Especially after being doubly assured by your team no racing is happening.

Hey, I'm not disagreeing with you. Ultimately Seb played unfair but Mark also left himself open to having his pants pulled down. Unfortunately, whilst the team can give orders, they can't enforce them. Maybe he should have been better informed of the closing gap and maybe he should have, if possible done more to manage that.

Mr Men · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:37

Neo4 said:
Wasnt Seb also on fresher tyres?

You have the telemetry don't you

Skeeter · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:40

DRZ said:
IF?

Are you for real? Here it is in bold, underlined capital letters for you:

BOTH DRIVERS WERE TOLD TO BACK IT RIGHT OFF. ONLY ONE OF THEM DID

I thought that point was absolutely completely entirely utterly and unequivocally crystal clear from the outset?

One driver was backing off as instructed. The other was at maximum attack, directly against instructions.

Is that how you define a fair, straight fight?

How many times do I have to explain that the fair fight starts at the point they start fighting. Vettel gaining on Webber while Webber thinks his lead is safe is not a fight. The fight starts at the point when the penny drops in Marks head and he realizes Seb isn't going to settle for second. From there on, its a fight, and Webber lost.

Kenai · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:42

As for did Vettel just pick up the pace or did Webber back off:

Webber was taking 0.5s+ chunks out of Vettel just prior to about lap 38 and pulling high 1m40s and low 1m41s in doing so.

After lap 38 the gap levelled out and Webber was then doing high 1m41s and low 1m42s.

Lob in a 2 second slower pit stop for Webber on lap 44 and that's how Vettel 'closed in'.

Mr Men · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:42

Neo4 · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:42

I know which driver i would rather have in the team if it came down to a crapshoot. guess at the end of the day, that is all that matters.

Look at MSC, he would do anything to win and is now regarded as the greatest [ by most] I see the same thing in Seb, he will push and do things that are not always warranted [ MSC parking the car at Monaco] because he only knows one thing, winning. If it was my team, that is what i would want. Brawn, in a roundabout way , said the same thing of Nico. "would be dissapointed if he wasnt upset" or words to that effect.

Some drivers do not take kindly to being beaten and will do anything to prevent it, i'd rather have that than a Massa or Barrichelo!

Right or wrong, you wont change him, you will probably never like him but, he will go on to be one of the greatest drivers in F1 history [imo] and deservedly so.

Mr Men · 24 Mar 2013 at 22:43

Skeeter said:
How many times do I have to explain that the fair fight starts at the point they start fighting. Vettel gaining on Webber while Webber thinks his lead is safe is not a fight. The fight starts at the point when the penny drops in Marks head and he realizes Seb isn't going to settle for second. From there on, its a fight, and Webber lost.

So Seb sucker punches him from behind and you still call it a fair fight?