Malaysian Grand Prix 2013, Kuala Lumpur - Race 2/19
- Thread starter Duke
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F1 is a team sport.
Managers make decisions that enable their team to get the best result. Seeing the cars home was the best decision for the team.
That's not corrupt nor is it race fixing, it's winning as a team.
I can't help but feel if it was a team order such as "Mark, pull over and let Seb pass." and Mark ignored it, he would be castrated live on air. Few press words to make it look like they're going to discipline Seb, but I'd have doubts anything will happen.
Yeah, at the very least it wouldn't be swept under the carpet in such a hurry by Horner.
I think people have major issue with what happened due to who it was, rather than what actually happened. If a popular driver ignored a team order and screwed over Vettel then it would not be getting nearly this much negative reaction. People are obviously just after Vettel, as shown by the petty complaints popping up on here about random things where hes done nothing wrong.
Soldato
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I completely understand what you are saying and agree with you, but at the same time I can see why a team who is in the lead (1, 2) of a race would want to control their drivers if they know they have tyre degredation issues and also want to save engines/gearboxes for the season. By having your two drivers rag their cars to the end of the race, they could put unnecessary stress on the engines, the tyres and potentially take each other out. Surely you understand it from the team perspective.
There are two competitions to the season remember, Drivers and Constructors.
There are two competitions to the season remember, Drivers and Constructors.
Speaking purely for myself, you're quite wrong.
Yes of course. I've been trying, and failing for a day to explain my stance. I totally understand why RBR did what they did. For the team the best result was the fixed 1-2, no extra stress, no drain on tyres. I 100% agree with their reasoning for what they did (note, I don't like it, but I agree with why they did it). I also totally agree with all the people saying Vettel is an arse and a spoilt brat who thinks he is bigger than the team and who took a massive risk and could have cost the team a lot of points.
The difference seems to be, that I also fully understand why Vettel did what he did. He is a racer, he saw a chance for a win, and he went for it. Should he have obeyed the team orders, yeah, thats what they expect him to do. Do I see the reasons why he didn't? Yes, 100%, he's there to win, whatever the cost.
He is a ****, but a 3 times WDC **** who won the race yesterday. To him, which do you think is more important, being nice, or winning? Just look at last year, it was far to close at the end for him to think leaving 7 points on the table would be ok.
They are still against the spirit of competition though and a black stain on the sport.
So you think the order was wrong, but the German should have just followed it anyway? well I can't think of any major 20th century historical event that had similar situations...
Do we like team orders? No, race fixing ruins motorsport
Did Vettel do the right thing? Yes, just because your boss orders you to fix the outcome of the race, make a mockery of the sport and make all the fans look like idiots doesn't mean you should.
That's not what you have been trying to argue - you've been trying to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm sure rapists think that getting their pleasure is more important than the wellbeing of their victims too. Thieves put their own circumstances ahead of their victims. Also justifiable? I mean, ultimately the thief has to eat, right?
I didn't mention what I thought of the specific order.
Personally I think team orders are very different to race fixing. Race fixing would be asking both drivers to drive into a wall as you have $5m on a Mercedes win.
I guess my above comment covers it. It's a little like a football manager asking someone to play left back and they go and play right wing. You'd bring them off surely?
To be fair, I always remember being the best way to make a point is to take it to the extreme. That's all he's done. If you can't cope, probably best you leave the thread.
Soldato
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And we take one step closer to Godwins Law. Rapists are now involved, it is only a mater of time until the Nazi goose step into this thread.
So overtaking Webber is a criminal offence now?
No, but is an example of someone disobeying authority and abandoning morals in pursuit of personal gratification.
Also:
Soldato
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Personally, I expect he might have done it on purpose knowing that there was going to be a massive whoha about it. Vettle is trying to become the new "bad guy". Just look how he acted on the podium last year, with all the 'F'in and Jeff'in.
He is trying to become "that" guy.
No, but is an example of someone disobeying authority and abandoning morals in pursuit of personal gratification.
Also:
He's a racing driver. It can't come as much of a surprise that he would abandon 'being a nice guy' to win a race (which is, of course, what he's paid to do).
It's the same as a sales guy at work being a complete arse, but consistently bringing big deals in ...
Personally, I expect he might have done it on purpose knowing that there was going to be a massive whoha about it. Vettle is trying to become the new "bad guy". Just look how he acted on the podium last year, with all the 'F'in and Jeff'in.
He is trying to become "that" guy.
Good point. That swearing in Abu Dhabi was terrible, just stunk of him trying to be cool.
But at the end of the day, if he is "that guy" with 4, 5 6, however many WDC's, does he care?