Manchester Bombing *** Please remain respectful and refrain from antagonising posts ***

[bingham67]

BBC saying Police are investigating a network now

 

[dowie]

Kicking down the door of a suspected terrorist is a job for SAS or possibly CTSFO.

or both together even...

 

[V F]

I have to come in here and literally be like WTF you all think you know about. This isn't COD. Your "loadouts" are way off, your understanding of "what infantry, what UKSF and other regs" is way off. Just get on with updating your Excel spreadsheets and leave the Prestiging until you get back to your consoles.

You all? Big brush?

 

[nemtizz]

I have to come in here and literally be like WTF you all think you know about. This isn't COD. Your "loadouts" are way off, your understanding of "what infantry, what UKSF and other regs" is way off. Just get on with updating your Excel spreadsheets and leave the Prestiging until you get back to your consoles.

Please enlighten us.

 

[Rroff]

I have to come in here and literally be like WTF you all think you know about. This isn't COD. Your "loadouts" are way off, your understanding of "what infantry, what UKSF and other regs" is way off. Just get on with updating your Excel spreadsheets and leave the Prestiging until you get back to your consoles.

lols - do educate - as I made very clear in my posts my knowledge is basic.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

I have to come in here and literally be like WTF you all think you know about. This isn't COD. Your "loadouts" are way off, your understanding of "what infantry, what UKSF and other regs" is way off. Just get on with updating your Excel spreadsheets and leave the Prestiging until you get back to your consoles.

LOL triggered.

 

[VincentHanna]

The Islamic hate preacher in question has never run for election (he probably disagrees with democracy), it wasn't at nine election hustings that Khan shared the stage with him. I mean, would you attend an event like Global Peace and Unity, organised by the Islam Channel, a TV station that advocates marital rape? If a Tory MP had done the liberals would be up in arms. Smart enough to see through the smears or too busy virtue-signalling and pandering to see what's really going on under their noses?

You talk so much crap. I've been tempted to put you on the ignore list but that's me then living in an echo chamber...

At least some of the more right wing people here can generally put forward a well reasoned argument, not parrot crap that you've read on Breitbart.

Sadiq Khan is a Muslim London Mayor, get over it.

 

[Robbo]

The problem is that the only real suggestions that are being put out there involve incredibly regressive policies like internment for suspected terrorists.

But you're right that there are things that could be done that *aren't* regressive, but require two things that are hard to come by: increased funding, and changes in attitude. On the first point, it can only be beneficial to increase the funding that is given to the police for counter-terrorism operations. We know that the majority of perpetrators of terror are known to the police for one reason or another -- though not necessarily in a terror context, as per the Westminster attacker -- and more detailed monitoring of potential suspects would at least give us the opportunity to react quickly. We've seen that the police tend to be able to round up accomplices relatively quickly; they likely already have these connections, but without proof that a suspect is about to perpetrate an act of terror, bringing them in can be counterproductive. This is where the second point comes in.

Certain communities (united by language, religion or race) tend to be somewhat insular. The reasons for this are complex, but generally boil down to a reluctance for members of the community to integrate with the wider population, and a reluctance for the wider population to accept them. We're automatically suspicious of people who look different to us, or speak a different language. We often project this suspicion in our body language and our general demeanour so it's unsurprising that integration can be hard. By being open and accepting of these communities, we foster trust and where there's trust there's more likely to be dialogue. If the police start bringing suspected terrorists and their contacts in for questioning left, right and centre, all that will happen is that the rest of that community will become distrustful of the police -- you can see how easily this happens by looking at the USA -- and so when they notice something suspicious or odd about people in their community they will be less likely to report it.

So what I'm saying is that there are things that *everyone* can do to help stop this. Put aside your prejudices about race, religion and country of origin and be welcoming and friendly toward migrants. If we show them that we're able to recognise that there's a difference between them and their subversive elements (in the same way that they presumably don't assume we're all rapists or murderers even though those elements exist in our society) then they'll be less likely to believe the propaganda that they're fed from those subversive elements. Unfortunately attitudes are hard to change, and while we have the power to do it ourselves, I'm not convinced there's the will.

Good points, well made. I don't think we'll ever have a peaceful world, people are just too stupid to get along (for lack of a better word). Obviously there are certain areas/countries where there is much more aggression, but ultimately people will want to be different to one another and that will ultimately create violent conflict.

I find it hard to understand the way some religions treat women for example, I will never agree with it, nor will most people in this country I'm sure.

So if you acknowledge that it's near impossible to stop [fully] and it's the worst attack in 12 years involving a bomb, then what more do you think can be done?

That's just it, I don't know. However I find it difficult to accept that all we can do is just plod on and hope for the best, it's a shame.

The attacker's imam said earlier that it was clear he was a hateful individual and he rejected peaceful teachings - that should immediately - in an extremist terror context - set alarm bells ringing. That imam should be explaining this to the security services. If it looks like someone might end up being a terrorist, or they exhibit these signs of behaviour, they need to be looked at. If this means larger budgets for the intelligence services, then so be it.

:: I should add, I think it's amazing there haven't been more attacks and obviously we are doing something right, but I can see this all getting worse, not better.

 

[deuse]

What's WW1 and WW2 got to do with fighting terrorism?

It must be time for your steak by now, or at least your afternoon nap

Hitler terrorised millions of people by bombing the homes and killing them. And gassing the Jews. Or are you trying to say
that no one in the wars was terrorised?
You only like facts when they back your leftist agenda.

 

[MG42Maniac]

I have to come in here and literally be like WTF you all think you know about. This isn't COD. Your "loadouts" are way off, your understanding of "what infantry, what UKSF and other regs" is way off. Just get on with updating your Excel spreadsheets and leave the Prestiging until you get back to your consoles.

I trust your occupation of "Consultant" is a security consultant with many years serving in the Special Forces. Please could you draw on this wealth of experience to educate us all. The sooner the better, my bed time is fast approaching.

 

[Rroff]

I trust your occupation of "Consultant" is a security consultant with many years serving in the Special Forces. Please could you draw on this wealth of experience to educate us all. The sooner the better, my bed time is fast approaching.

I think he mentioned previous armed forces occupation before but might be mixing him up with someone else - kind of funny if not as while I've never been enlisted I spent a few months working with 1 PARA so even though my knowledge is pretty vague it is atleast based on something.

 

[Name]

Bbc reporting a police officer among those killed, bomb maker still at large possibly making equipment for a network.

 

[LOAM]

I picture our 'war on terror' as a battle between Hercules and the Hydra.

May could start our war on terror by stopping selling vast quantities of arms to states that support rogue states. They are all at it though, the war mongers need their $$$, even earlier this week Trump has signed a $100Billion deal with the Saudi's despite blaming them for 9.11 less than 12 months ago.

 

[MG42Maniac]

I think he mentioned previous armed forces occupation before but might be mixing him up with someone else - kind of funny if not as while I've never been enlisted I spent a few months working with 1 PARA so even though my knowledge is pretty vague it is atleast based on something.

How did you find working with them? My friend went into 1 Para a while back and possibly into SAS/SBS. He had a few stories to tell while in 1 Para, sounded much more interesting than his previous unit, 2 Para.

 

[McGray]

May could start our war on terror by stopping selling vast quantities of arms to states that support rogue states. They are all at it though, the war mongers need their $$$, even earlier this week Trump has signed a $100Billion deal with the Saudi's despite blaming them for 9.11 less than 12 months ago.

Indeed.

Trump: Says that the worlds problems are the fault of militarised Islam.

Sells the country with the most extreme Islam-based society in the world $100bn in weapons.

 

[Freakbro]

Hitler terrorised millions of people by bombing the homes and killing them. And gassing the Jews. Or are you trying to say
that no one in the wars was terrorised?
You only like facts when they back your leftist agenda.

Jesus wept

We were fighting other countries with standing armies in WW1 and WW2, not terrorist groups with guerrilla warfare tactics [sarcasm]there is a slight difference[/sarcasm]

 

[StriderX]

That's a failure of logic. You're saying that because May is politically required to make a statement there's no evidence that she actually cares about this. Whereas I wonder why your default assumption is that someone doesn't care about children being murdered unless you find proof. May, for all that I am politically opposed to her, is a human being. It's downright offensive to accuse someone of being okay with child-murder just because you don't like them.



There have been plenty of people in professional careers and well-educated who have fallen prey to ISIS propaganda. See my earlier story about a girl I knew who was happy and normal and with very Westernised parents (they left Pakistan to get away from religion) and yet suddenly started adopting strict Islamic beliefs because of the crowd she fell in with. She didn't join ISIS (there wasn't such a thing back then) but it was certainly a radical and disturbing conversion. This is someone with an education, degree and career opportunities.

Lack of opportunity or education is not the determining factor. Is it an exacerbating one? Maybe? But if so I think it's a minor one. A LOT of people are in such circumstances and worse. Also, this was someone who DID have the opportunity to go university. And he was employed at the time he carried out this attack. It's misguided to start suggesting it was due to economic / employment factors when there are far more likely explanations, namely his parents were political dissidents and he spent the last couple of years in Libya which is - since we bombed it - a hotbed of terrorism.



I don't believe that because I've seen no evidence of it. Also, "chavs" is unnecessary. You get some Anti-Capitalist types who seem to think bombing somewhere would (for reasons unfathomable) be a good thing, but don't actually do anything. What radicalises people, imo, is not simply limited career opportunities (and again, this was someone who had prospects and seemingly gave them up), but war and civil unrest. When we overthrew the government of Libya we handed power to people (National Transitional Council) that were engaged in ethnic cleansing. Black people in Libya were rounded up and driven out to be lynched. By the people we supported. Being on JSA doesn't convince someone they're a soldier in the war against "The West". Seeing the death and destruction in a failed country does it. Many muslims are much closer to such horrors than other Britains. They have cousins or family that have been bombed or executed. They read non-Western news sources that actually show the bodies. Islam is a problem, imo. There are multiple things about the religion I dislike and its lack of separation between Church and State is one of those things that is relevant here. But more than this by far is the simple fact that many muslims in this country have close ties to people are ARE at war with the West. It's that exposure that makes some of them prey for radical sects of Islam like Saudi Arabian Wahabism. Not economic downturn. I believe this because it fits with what I have seen and read. And this tragedy that has just taken place also fits with this.




Islam is a factor. Not a determinant. Not a reason to think any given muslim is a terrorist or sympathiser (because most aren't). But it is a belief system that is used by some to recruit and tie people together. I guarantee if it was the Wiccan State of Iraq and Levant you wouldn't see many British muslims thinking it represented them somehow.



No, offensive. I don't see why they "better be joking". They said it was bordering on offensive and it was. And the Eighties is an appropriate comparison. You attributed attacks like this to unemployment and lack of opportunity. They compared it to the Eighties where both were far worse yet such attacks by British citizens were rarer.

I'll bite again.

How can you say that someone with little opportunity isnt more likely to find their lives less worth living?

I'm simply coming at the suicide angle here, the less reasons someone can justify for killing themselves, the less probability that they should also kill others in the process... The different aspect of Wahhabist extremism is something that isnt going to get solved any time soon, with our lovely support of the Al-Sauds, we can definitely make our society less needing to kill themselves however.

 

[Amp34]

this isnt an airport.

for that to work in this case youd have to install metal detectors at all the tram stations, then all the street corners etc

And I'm still not sure how it works because you just end up with a massive queue outside rather than inside.

and what happens when they have no papers, and refuse to tell you where they're from?

You don't get citizenship that's for sure, or right to remain.

 

[SS-89]

May could start our war on terror by stopping selling vast quantities of arms to states that support rogue states. They are all at it though, the war mongers need their $$$, even earlier this week Trump has signed a $100Billion deal with the Saudi's despite blaming them for 9.11 less than 12 months ago.

Indeed, happy to fund/equip states that have been culpable of some pretty atrocious acts (i.e. Saudi/Israel). It's all about money ultimately. The middle east is a melting pot of differing motives which hasn't helped the situation.

 

[d_brennen]

Indeed.

Trump: Says that the worlds problems are the fault of militarised Islam.

Sells the country with the most extreme Islam-based society in the world $100bn in weapons.

I do wonder how I am going to explain the world to my daughter when she's a little older. You could not write this as fiction