You're taking the view that most of the people on free school meals have fallen on hard times and were previously financially independent then? I don't agree with that. I think there are a lot of parents who have children without being able to pay for them without state support. It's a problem when there are no repercussions to simply having children that you can't afford and other people have to pick up the bill. It's even worse when people are called "vile" for pointing it out - typical tolerant left.
Marcus Rashford
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You're taking the view that most of the people on free school meals have fallen on hard times and were previously financially independent then? I don't agree with that. I think there are a lot of parents who have children without being able to pay for them without state support. It's a problem when there are no repercussions to simply having children that you can't afford and other people have to pick up the bill. It's even worse when people are called "vile" for pointing it out - typical tolerant left.
The repercussions being child poverty which will lead to crime etc and starvation. There's lots of reasons why people have kids they can't afford, situation changes, parents splitting up or running away, massive global recessions like the latest one that's going to hit hard, lack of access/education to contraception or abortions for religious reasons.
If you think people that don't need the benefits are getting them, then look at the system, don't make kids go hungry. Nothing about left or right politics, it's basic human decency.
Tax me another £10-20 a month to cover it, absolutely not bothered as long as the money ends up in the right place.
Soldato
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Why don't you support your point of view by backing it up with actual evidence?
As opposed to the person who made the original assertion that people claiming the benefits have simply fallen on hard times and made a sound financial decision to have kids?
Realistically I doubt it would even cost us that much, per person. I can't see why people are being so miserable and bitter about children, vulnerable or not, getting food.
I don't have the desire to want children, unless my partner nags me into it, but I still don't want children going hungry if it means it costs me a bit more per month. Education and youth services are already barley keeping afloat as it is
You realise a child has no say in the matter right? A child is just born and needs to live in whatever household the parents do. If that child is in poverty then its not as if the child can go out and earn a living.
I understand irresponsible morons have children. But the child has no influence on that.
If a bit of extra money ensures that child doesn't add hunger to its list of worries then its fine by me.
Spending in some areas means it's not needed so much in other areas. Less poverty means less desperation and less appeal for crime etc.
But you know what. On a simple human level... I earn enough money to support my family. I'm happy and I'm not going to spend my life being a bitter scroogey ****head over the idea that welfare helps some people.
I suppose my issue is that I expect benefits to be a safety net that is ultimately temporary and covers a period of hardship, we've moved away from that model to them simply being used as a means to permanently uplift people from poverty on an ongoing basis. So if you have a parent working 16 hours a week and claiming benefits, there's no incentive for them to leave that 16 hour role and aspire to earn more because the system provides a long term benefit that means they don't have to, they actually have a reasonable life style with everything paid for. I watched that program the Big benefits handout(?) where they gave claimants £26,000 to come off benefits and a lot of them have anxiety about losing their payments and starting their own business or getting full time jobs. They become dependent and are essentially institutionalised in the benefits system.
I agree with you completely but we really do need to address the root cause of these issues rather than just continuing to hand out money etc to make sure that the parental responsibility is removed even further. Breakfast for a child can be done for pennies. We used to have porridge for breakfast and a KG of oats is about £1.10. Thats a months worth of breakfasts for a child. Its sad that the parents don't do this for their children but school meals for children is probably so cheap in the grand scheme of things that even if it helps a handful of children out, it will make financial sense in the long run even ignoring the moral argument.
Most of us are sat here on expensive pcs or mobile phones and we were likely raised in households that didn't have any significant financial worries.
Until we have experienced poverty we can all make assumptions.
I was unemployed at one point in my adult life for about 4 months and its not quite as appealing as people make out.
I don't envy people who rely on benefits. I don't really give a crap if they have big Tvs bought from Bright House because it makes them feel a little less poor than they really are.
It's better to just concentrate on your own life. If the governments use of your taxes really offends you that much then maybe move into politics. Or if you are forming judgement on people when you have no real experience with them other than a few naff TV shows on channel 5 then maybe put your anger into some kind of social schemes.
Until we have experienced poverty we can all make assumptions.
I was unemployed at one point in my adult life for about 4 months and its not quite as appealing as people make out.
I don't envy people who rely on benefits. I don't really give a crap if they have big Tvs bought from Bright House because it makes them feel a little less poor than they really are.
It's better to just concentrate on your own life. If the governments use of your taxes really offends you that much then maybe move into politics. Or if you are forming judgement on people when you have no real experience with them other than a few naff TV shows on channel 5 then maybe put your anger into some kind of social schemes.
No one's angry Hedge, we're having a debate on a forum. Why not post some alternative arguments instead of accusing people of outrage where non actually exists? All you've said here is that I'm using an expensive PC so haven't experienced poverty (LOL) so I should just concentrate on my own life and not worry how my taxes are spent.
It's a fair assumption. What is your experience with poverty or school meal money?
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Oh would everyone shut up with this left/right nonsense. There are children who don’t have access to enough food. Regardless of what created this situation, it is the states duty to feed feed and ensure their wellbeing if the families are unable to do so.
Yes people are having children when they can’t afford them. Some fall on hard times and then require help.
You say there are no repercussions to people having children they can’t afford. So what’s your solution? Just let them die. That’ll teach them.
It isnt funny is it. Why do you want to see children go hungry?
Who in there right mind does...
Not wanting children to go hungry isnt left is it. The idea that people are arguing against hungry children and families living in poverty after years of austerity during a pandemic of all things is just wrong.
I think one of the issues is that the more safety nets you put in place, the more it disincentivises people to take personal responsibility.
I'm not sure real life works quite like that.
One of the big advantages young people from wealthier backgrounds have is that they have the safety net of their parents - they can pursue riskier opportunities, benefit from spending their own resources building cultural capital etc.
If you're living on a knife edge, with no fall-back, you can't risk anything - moving to a new town/city, quitting your minimum wage job to try to gain new qualificatins or experience etc. It's all out of reach.
I do see that point of view but I just can't separate hungry kids from woklis adults. There are bad eggs everywhere in society and there will always be those who take any little advantage they can get, sadly that's human nature. But then there are those who really, for one reason or another, do depend on the help from the state and I find it hard to take a "their own problem" stance on it. As humans we are capable of a lot of horrible things but we are also capable of great compassion (something that a few on here are lacking) and ensuring that children aren't going hungry falls under that.
I'm constantly reading that people today can't be held accountable for the actions of their ancestors. Why should children go hungry due to the fault of their parents? As Timebomb26 said, what do we do, let the kids die to teach the parents a lesson?
Yeah I have a friend like that. He is constantly getting himself in silly debt or taking payday loans, when they were available, to buy stupid stuff and he just didn't care cause his family were able to bail him out consistently. Even today in his 30s he still acts the same and gets credit or finance for everything or he will stop working for some really petty reason and know he can coast unemployed for a few months cause the bank of parents will bail him out. He was talking about getting a mortgage soon and I was laughing to myself as his credit must be non existent but then he said something about his parents going in on the mortgage with him and I was livid inside as it's taken me years of saving to get to this point, he just asked for it.
Though I have to be honest, I'm just jealous I couldn't do the same! But then I wouldn't have a work ethic.
It's funny that you need to call me names, and now you're suggesting that I want to see children go hungry which is also funny. I could act all offended but I stopped caring what people thought about me a while back.
Old stats I know, but I believe the principle still stands.
It's not like taking what you don't deserve is something only poor people do.
https://www.indy100.com/article/ben...idance-billions-government-statistics-8056846
It's not like taking what you don't deserve is something only poor people do.
https://www.indy100.com/article/ben...idance-billions-government-statistics-8056846
You've quoted some stats around benefit fraud, can you show me where anyone has mentioned benefit fraud in this thread?