Would put money on him asking for more and some guy at Rockstar who wasn't even born when the song released telling him to think of the exposure. I'd pay 7.5k to tell someone like that to **** off too and I'm no millionaire
.Martyn Ware tells Rockstar Games to do one!
- Thread starter DHR
- Start date
.So he takes $7500 for a song on a GTA radio amongst many - or he gets significantly more publicity for him and his track by publicly condemning Rockstar?
How many people will now go and listen to the tune through piqued interest? As it's now of interest, we'll get cover versions, remixed into other tracks and the usual influencers doing something with the track too
Smart move considering the low offer from R*
I just went and listened to it a couple of times just now
Commissario
LOLThey aren't the ones whinging about it.
Interesting the ones that are defending him are the ones that probably agree with his very vocal politics as well. (I don't mean you Dalandius, I don't know your politics)
I don't even recognise his name, or the song.
What I do know is a tiny bit about how licencing works and how many artists of all types are routinely getting screwed by billion dollar companies.
Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Sep 2020
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I’m on the side of, get on with it. Get the profile with us younger lot.
Similar to the Kate Bush with stranger things. Ended up making loads on the side.
I’d be very very surprised if he’s making that each year from royalties.
Similar to the Kate Bush with stranger things. Ended up making loads on the side.
I’d be very very surprised if he’s making that each year from royalties.
No one seems to have any actual figures in here to gauge whether or not he was being unreasonable.
Like I'm not sure streaming revenue is comparable here, these are just songs that play in the background of the game if in a car and on that radio channel, whereas a streaming song is often one the user has chosen to play or put into a specific playlist. different usage of the media so likely a different pricing structure/pay out for the artist.
It's not clear if the 7.5k is what they'd pay in total for the rights to use it in GTA6 or just this guy's share as one of the artists/writers for the song.. like are others getting 7.5k too and the record company or other rights holders getting something?
Like I'm not sure streaming revenue is comparable here, these are just songs that play in the background of the game if in a car and on that radio channel, whereas a streaming song is often one the user has chosen to play or put into a specific playlist. different usage of the media so likely a different pricing structure/pay out for the artist.
It's not clear if the 7.5k is what they'd pay in total for the rights to use it in GTA6 or just this guy's share as one of the artists/writers for the song.. like are others getting 7.5k too and the record company or other rights holders getting something?
Associate
Even if artists were charged 5 figures for getting their song into the game it would be a steal. Very very silly man.
Soldato
If they are playing the entire song and then its repeated on streams for people and basically he is signing it away, I think just being sensible he should say no. If its like an advert clip and people then go listen to the entire song, that's more productive for him and I bet they'd pay him more. Its a fair complaint, Im sure he is fine anyway. Its only if they are not the song writer pop stars end up poor.
I think the screw up here really is the way Rock Star and/or maybe his publisher approached it, I suspect by someone with no actual interest in their job just pushing out the same approach to everyone without thought. Dealing with a small time or casual artist who might be interested in getting a leg up is one thing, with an established artist and an iconic song you don't want to start talking money off the bat (unless you are intent on acquiring the right to use it at "any" cost) - "Would you be interested in your song being included in our game?" and go from there.
Caporegime
You are partly right. There’s a department who is tasked at getting the rights and they have made a list of songs they want to acquire the rights to. So someone is going to have to make calls and email firstly to the publishers and record labels. Those emails you can behave a little more like a desk monkey since the person on the other side is just the same, a desk job for them. The key is when the record label direct them to the songwriter themselves.
Some artists sees their work as children, so putting a low price on it, too low a price, is an insult. If you can imagine how much money that song has made him in the past…and Rockstar is only offering $7500…and removed all future royalties? Put them all together, it’s just too low an offer.
As for exposure, I think he just got a ton! Without signing anything away lol
I think it's a little on the low side considering this will probably end up on 2 sets of consoles (Current Xbox / PS5 + the next gen and PC) Plus any on-going live service GTA will provide due to the success of GTA 5.
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Why is it low though?
People just seem to be going off general vibes but what's the actual going rate here for song usage in AAA games* and does the 7.5k refer to this guy's personal cut or the total Rockstar will pay for it?
*Also this isn't a theme sone of one of a few songs to feature prominently but rather one of several on one of several radio stations so that's presumably going to impact the price too.
Soldato
There's a good chance that offer wasn't just for in-game use but rather as a syncro fee across all media including advertisement. So whilst there is the argument he could have done reasonably ok out of online streaming/purchasing because of the games popularity, he would most likely have done a lot, lot better off the royalties (PRS, ASCAP etc) from the advertisement especially given global reach/markets.
I'm lucky enough to have a few best mates in the industry writing for TV/music libraries and a popular ad can pay them really, really well in royalties. So i can understand the frustration of what they offered to Ware if that was the case.
FYI, film is a completely different beast and not necessarily the better option moneywise.
Just for some context - 30/40 odd seconds of a single track on a very popular TV ad in the UK, think TalkTalk type, paid one of my mates roughly £50-60k in two PRS quarters with it tailing off thereafter. There wasn't any exclusivity with that brand so that track was/can be used elsewhere and still is a few years on.
Throw in multiple markets, platforms and use and you can see how it could be worth a lot to a writer/composer.
FYI, i know nothing about game side of things and royalties etc as neither of my mates do that industry. Used to know someone that was on the music side for Blizzard but that was as an employee so it's meaningless here.
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That seems iffy - advertising pays a lot more AFAIK so that doesn't seem likely.
They'll no doubt want to pre-empt the issue of the license running out for in-game use- the game getting provided later as a classic version etc. can turn into a big faff if they need to renegotiate rights for all songs etc..
They had over 400 songs in GTAV, they only need a few for advertising and can pay for that use for those songs specifically.
I'm not sure there's much you can infer from that, similarly, people have mentioned the amount paid per stream on streaming services and then tried to compare with the number of games sold. But as mentioned before, AFAIK advertising pays a lot it's not really comparable/not sure it does provide useful context here.
What is needed is the amount paid for similar in-game use in AAA games - not as a main theme of one of a few tracks either, but the context here is one of several hundred tracks that some people will barely listen to as they might just switch away from some radio stations/genres of songs.
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Easy to say it's just one of many in a collection of songs but Vice City was massive and a decent percentage of that was down to the vibe created by the radio stations soundtrack. In fact I'd love to see the sales figures for the Official ST collection that released across multiple cds at the time.
Man of Honour
Surely the monetary value of it is irrelevant? To anyone but the most nobody of nobodies it must be quite obvious that the money changing hands is simply a token to base the contract around?
Caporegime
I think you don't realise how cheap music is these days. This isn't the 80's or 90's anymore.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,663
I am of the view that it if it is his song and he has the rights to it, he can accept or reject any offer he wants.
OTOH equally i cant say i am at all enraged about R* trying to low ball him either.
maybe what R* should do is to remove all the copyrighted music from the game completely, but keep some of the DJ chat in and fake adverts etc and use royalty free music, but then have directories for different genres of music and allow us to put our own personal mp3s into the game folder in the correct genres if we choose......
OTOH equally i cant say i am at all enraged about R* trying to low ball him either.
maybe what R* should do is to remove all the copyrighted music from the game completely, but keep some of the DJ chat in and fake adverts etc and use royalty free music, but then have directories for different genres of music and allow us to put our own personal mp3s into the game folder in the correct genres if we choose......
For an unkown artists sure.