Martyn Ware tells Rockstar Games to do one!

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It's a valid reason to be annoyed, being shirked by a multi billion dollar company for usage rights to a game that will generate tens of billions in revenue. You only have to look at the first GTA6 reveal trailer to see what the numbers say.
 
I think he's made a huge mistake here. Yes the money is crap and an insult - if that's all it would lead to.

But the exposure is incomparable for what it could have done to extend the life of that song another 40 years or more. GTA6 will be played by a good portion of gen X who remember the song first time round, plus huge swathes of Millennials and Gen Z who've never heard that song.

A very catchy, chanty song that's easy to sing along to and I'd say has as good as chance as any to re-chart based on being in GTA6. A song that could easily be put into playlists for the next 50 years that otherwise might be forgotten.

It's a crap offer, but he doesn't realise the potential of being in this game that will be a cultural phenomenon, more so than GTA5 simply due to the insanely long time between releases now, these kind of opportunities doesn't come around ever day or even every decade.

Big mistake with such a catchy song that is very memorable after only one or two listenings. I've barely even seen it on TV more than twice back in the 80's and always remembered that chorus, many new young listeners would have become fans of that song that now wont be.

Rockstar know all that, all too well, hence knowing they don't have to pay that high for music rights, it's the exposure that's the real gold here.
 
It's a valid reason to be annoyed, being shirked by a multi billion dollar company for usage rights to a game that will generate tens of billions in revenue. You only have to look at the first GTA6 reveal trailer to see what the numbers say.
how many songs willl the game have though?

GTav had 441 licensed tracks according to google.

that would already be 3.3million if they were paying 7.5k per song.

but they aren't because for this song 3 people were getting 7.5k each


there probably already spending close to 10million on music

most people probably won't listen to it either. (the radios more than once)

a lot of people would be happy to still be earning from a song some 40 years old, and GTA6 will probably have a life time of 10 years, that's a lot of people growing up and being exposed to the music in the game.


Sure songs set the mood but lets face it, the songs alone don't really add much value
 
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how many songs willl the game have though?

GTav had 441 licensed tracks according to google.

that would already be 3.3million if they were paying 7.5k per song.

but they aren't because for this song 3 people were getting 7.5k each


there probably already spending close to 10million on music

most people probably won't listen to it either. (the radios more than once)

a lot of people would be happy to still be earning from a song some 40 years old, and GTA6 will probably have a life time of 10 years, that's a lot of people growing up and being exposed to the music in the game.


Sure songs set the mood but lets face it, the songs alone don't really add much value
GTA5 made $8.5 billion

$10 million fits into that 850 times, I think they can find it in their hoard of wealth to pay people reasonably.
 
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GTA5 made $8.5 billion

$10 million fits into that 850 times, I think they can find it in their hoard of wealth to pay people reasonably.
And?

AFAIK His song isn’t the main theme song for GTA 6.

How much value does his song actually add to the game and to the players experience? How many of the artists fans will be playing this game because his song is in the game?

I think the amount is low for a life time license (then again I understand why they want a life time license) but this artist has an over inflated ego.

His song is at best background flavour to a small percentage of the player base.
 
And?

AFAIK His song isn’t the main theme song for GTA 6.

How much value does his song actually add to the game and to the players experience? How many of the artists fans will be playing this game because his song is in the game?

I think the amount is low for a life time license (then again I understand why they want a life time license) but this artist has an over inflated ego.

His song is at best background flavour to a small percentage of the player base.
If anyone just lets the other party in a business deal walk all over them then they'll always be treated that way.
 
If anyone just lets the other party in a business deal walk all over them then they'll always be treated that way.
Except nobody here has managed to prove or even provide a good argument as to why he deserves more outside of they can pay more. So I doubt he’s actually getting walked all over as you put it.
 
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Except nobody here has managed to prove or even provide a good argument as to why he deserves more outside of they can pay more. So I doubt he’s actually getting walked all over as you put it.
And no one has shown why the offer they've given is a suitable amount or similar to what he could expect from other sources.

By the sounds of it he's not desperate for money, which means he's got no financial incentive to sell the rights for what he considers cheap, and it doesn't seem likely he's a fan of the game so there is likely no personal motive to sell the rights cheap/

That means that as far as he's concerned it's just another company trying to get the rights for what he considers is less than they're worth.

If Rockstar wanted 400 songs in the game as has been said, then one of the other options would be to set up a streaming server somewhere at Rockstar and do a deal to stream the songs for a set period, and if it works out cheaper for rockstar then that's good for them, if it works out that it costs them more then it indicates they were lowballing their offers.

A lot of musicians etc have been burned, often very badly signing contracts that give some the right to use their music indefinitely without further payments so the older and wiser ones tend to be extremely wary of such things.
 
It's a valid reason to be annoyed, being shirked by a multi billion dollar company for usage rights to a game that will generate tens of billions in revenue. You only have to look at the first GTA6 reveal trailer to see what the numbers say.

It's not clear what you're referring to here re: the trailer - what do the numbers say?
 
If Rockstar wanted 400 songs in the game as has been said, then one of the other options would be to set up a streaming server somewhere at Rockstar and do a deal to stream the songs for a set period, and if it works out cheaper for rockstar then that's good for them, if it works out that it costs them more then it indicates they were lowballing their offers.

That misses the point of what they do with the radio stations and their curated tracklist. These games are likely to be played for a long time, they'll likely want a classic GTA6 game available in the future too - self-sabotaging by limiting the music rights would be lunacy on their part.

A streaming service has a different use too - in the game, the songs start when a player enters a car and depend on the time of day and what the station is set to within the car, (the user can then change stations but can't select tracks) it's not the same thing as say sitting down to listen to a specific track, album or self-selected playlist.
 
If Rockstar wanted 400 songs in the game as has been said, then one of the other options would be to set up a streaming server somewhere at Rockstar and do a deal to stream the songs for a set period, and if it works out cheaper for rockstar then that's good for them, if it works out that it costs them more then it indicates they were lowballing their offers.
It would take a hell of a lot more work to distribute music than simply setting up a streaming server at Rockstar. They would need to do deals with all of the labels, make sure they have lawyers and watertight technology that doesn't breach any licensing terms. They'd pointless need to spend millions to do it when they can just license a few hundred tunes for a game instead. They will have done this already countless times, no need to go through loads of hoops to satisfy some perma-whinging boomer and his fans who don't understand technology.
 
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It would take a hell of a lot more work to distribute music than simply setting up a streaming server at Rockstar. They would need to do deals with all of the labels, make sure they have lawyers and watertight technology that doesn't breach any licensing terms. They'd pointless need to spend millions to do it when they can just license a few hundred tunes for a game instead. They will have done this already countless times, no need to go through loads of hoops to satisfy some perma-whinging boomer and his fans who don't understand technology.
It's whinging to want a fair deal for his product?
 
Clearly he was insulted enough to share his annoyance and show people who much value these days people place on music, which he disagrees.

One of the best things about the digital revolution of the past 30 years of so is the way it's affected the revenue models for music.

Frankly there's few people less deserving of the obscene sums of money that the music firms and some musicians used to be able command for simply putting out something, often knocked up in one afternoon in a drug fuelled haze, on yet another physical format.

At least footballers have to put a bit of ongoing work in to maintain fitness for the large amounts of money they are paid for kicking a ball about.

I think the current situation is far preferable where such artists make most of their money from actually putting in the work and touring.

At least then there's a more direct relationship between what's being paid and what's being provided.

I think this is just a generation clash. As has been pointed elsewhere in the thread Ware earned a lot of his money during the heyday for music sales. His track was no doubt on a list of possibles for GTA6 that they were working through and I doubt R* cared much when he said no and moved onto the next song.

People claiming its an insulting offer need to consider and contrast the thousands of people working for years that it will have taken to produce GTA6 well before any already existing works are incorporated into the finished product.

Expecting a % of the sales for such a bit piece of a works is laughable.

Apparently he was offered 22.5k as it was 7500 each for the 3 rights holders.

He then countered with 75k , does that mean per rights holder ? So 225k lol

As others have said its really a case of what's the typical offer elsewhere for similar use.

Comparing use in a streaming service to GTA6 is apples to oranges for example as the revenue model for streaming often means more tracks played are tied to more advertisements sold hence why payment per play makes more sense.
 
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