Matrix Reloaded - Discuss *[WARNING SPOILER]*

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He must have been plugged into the matrix, because the architect knew what he was thinking. He said he could see the chemical reactions in his brain, and he knew that Neo was going try to save Trinity.

The screens just show Neo's thoughts - just because they show scenes whilst onboard the Nebuchanezzar doesn't show that the real world is in fact an outer matrix, because the screens are just his thoughts/memories.
 
Originally posted by Valkyr
Stopped reading at page4...

Is it just me or a matrix within a matrix ruins the story completely? I will choose to believe that Zion is in fact just another matrix for rebels but Neo, Morpheus etc are really free. Something I never understood: why access code to Zion if its a real place? :confused: That would be, imo, because its another matrix and the machines dont really have access to it. What if Morpheus knows this but doesn't tell Neo so that Neo fights?
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How would it ruin the story completely?

If it's another Matrix inside a Matrix, surely it would add to the story. You know that the ending of the third film will be the salvation of mankind (this is hollywood folks); so if they suddenly realise that the 'real world' is actually part of another matrix, then you should see how they break free of that. That would be VERY interesting to me.
 
Originally posted by Garp
so if they suddenly realise that the 'real world' is actually part of another matrix, then you should see how they break free of that. That would be VERY interesting to me.
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Its one thing to break free from that "second" matrix, but they would have no resources in the Real "Real workd", certainly not the ability to destroy the machines.
 
when neo went to see the architect he wasnt going into the real world, he was delving deeper into the matrix still, as he was going to the core of the matrix.

i like the way that in many ways these multiple matrices represent our understanding of the dimensions in physics. if we take the matrix to be in the 2nd dimension, the "real world" as the 3rd dimension. then when you are stuck in the matrix there is no way of comprehending what could be outside it just as we cannot comprehend how it would be to be outside of time. in this way the people of zion have ascended a dimension and can see the matrix with ease just as we can look at 2d shapes with ease, emphasised by the point that they can just look at the coding of the matrix and seem to understand it all just be looking. however they cannot apprehend that there is a dimension outside of them and that would just link to my different layered matrix theory that i have already told you lot about.

If the above is correct then that would show further parallels between neo and god/christ as he seemingly is able to suss out at the end that in fact there are "dimensions" above the real world, ie they are still in the matrix. This would point to him being above everything and in some ways demonstrates a degree of omnipotency.

hiroki
 
Originally posted by kianagreen
quote:Originally posted by Chopper
YOU SILLY BOY

0000 = 0
0001 = 1
0010 = 2
0011 = 3
0100 = 4
0101 = 5

6 zions (0,1,2,3,4,5) 0000 being first, 0101 being sixth Binary Man!

is binary like a base 1 or something? Like I know when we count we count in base 10 so is binary like a base 1 or something like that similiar?
I know binary is computer code. but I am curious to figure out how you got 6 with the series of numbers.

i think I get it but not sure.

graces
Kianagreen
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binary is base 2 ie two pair 0 and 1

decimal is base 10 ie 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9

0000 = 0
0001 = 1
0010 = 2
0011 = 3
0100 = 4
0101 = 5
0110 = 6

binary on left decimal on right, but in the computing world arrays and loops dont start at 1 they allways start at 0 ie if you declared an array[10] you would have eleven "compartments" within in the array.

someone mentioned the animatrix and 01 this is because the machines were destoryed in the human colonies and were driven out of humanity to their own world ie 01 which is:
0000: 0
0001: 1 in decimal or the second home ie using same computer logic as before ie arrays etc starting at zero 01 would be their second home hence the two theories complimenting each other!
 
IMHO the film just wasn't as "cool" as the first one. There were no real moments like when Neo walks through the metal detector and you just know that he is gonna kick some butt.

Also, didn't he have most of his holes removed in the first film? If so, why does he have so many in the second?

-Peter
 
nah he never had his holes removed, they just wasnt any naked scenes in the first one most of the time he was suited and booted with that big goth style jacket! you should have seem em when he was in the big petri dish in the first one with all the needles stuck in him?
 
Excellent film IMHO.

As for explanations, I think there are two, both explained by the Spoon.

A) There is a Matrix (Zion) inside the Matrix. The guy gave Neo the Spoon but how did it get there? Surely he couldn't bring it back with him?!

Or, the IMO, more likely:

B) When the kid gave him the spoon Neo realised that his powers weren't limited to inside the Matrix as the kid had cleary been using his outside.

Opinions?
 
Originally posted by R4z0r
Excellent film IMHO.

As for explanations, I think there are two, both explained by the Spoon.

A) There is a Matrix (Zion) inside the Matrix. The guy gave Neo the Spoon but how did it get there? Surely he couldn't bring it back with him?!

Or, the IMO, more likely:

B) When the kid gave him the spoon Neo realised that his powers weren't limited to inside the Matrix as the kid had cleary been using his outside.

Opinions?
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Nah still not convinced. How did a spoon get outside the matrix? They must have developed spoons to eat with. Its not the spoon, just a spoon. I believe its more of a reminder to Neo than anything.
 
Originally posted by cyKey
Nah still not convinced. How did a spoon get outside the matrix? They must have developed spoons to eat with. Its not the spoon, just a spoon. I believe its more of a reminder to Neo than anything.
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agreed it has ye olde world hand made look about it, i also beleive its just a film style nod to something that has already happened
 
hhhmmm.... i hadnt thought about hte spoon really, i just thought that it was reminding him of before but no real significance. the more i think of it though i think the spoon symbolises something but i dont think it has that much of a significance to the plot of the film. cant think of what it symbolises though..

hiroki
 
Originally posted by syphonz
If this is set 100 years later why havnt they aged? if im wrong please correct me.
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it's not set 100 years later, i would say around 6 months, cause Morpheus says 'in the last 6 months we have freed more minds than the last 6 years'

Neo being the reason that they are able to free more minds

but thats just a guess :)
 
One thing I think no-ones picked up on yet, is that while they're all humans, they're cybernetically enhanced ones. They must have some chips in them to be able to accept being plugged into the matrix. Maybe, Neo's just found a way to talk to those components without having to jack in. That might explain why he collapses, too much drain on him. The Architect does say that his conciousnous has been altered. This kinda goes with my theory that the machines wanted Neo to join the source because they are afraid of what he might become given time to fully understand his new powers.
 
Originally posted by AlphaNumeric
Its one thing to break free from that "second" matrix, but they would have no resources in the Real "Real workd", certainly not the ability to destroy the machines.
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Of course.. that would very much depend on what exactly the real world is :)
It could literally be anything.

Maybe it's all part of a neural simulation, with mankind trying to force machines to develop AI....
Okay, so that's completely far fetched and extremely unlikely, but still.

It could literally be anything :D

Originally posted by cyKey
One thing I think no-ones picked up on yet, is that while they're all humans, they're cybernetically enhanced ones. They must have some chips in them to be able to accept being plugged into the matrix. Maybe, Neo's just found a way to talk to those components without having to jack in. That might explain why he collapses, too much drain on him. The Architect does say that his conciousnous has been altered. This kinda goes with my theory that the machines wanted Neo to join the source because they are afraid of what he might become given time to fully understand his new powers.
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Personally, I don't think they are cybernetically enhanced as such. The reason they can enter the matrix is because of that socket in the back of the head, which would be direct wired into the relevant senses section of the brain. Scientists are capable at the moment of creating some elementary form of vision using a similar technique on blind people.
To quote Morpheous from the first film:

What is real? How do you define real? If it is what you see and smell and touch, then real is merely electrical impulses sent to your brain...
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The same concept is used for Geordi's VISOR in the Star Trek: TNG episodes.
All that has to occur is for things to be translated into suitable electrical impulses that the brain can understand.

The extra holes around the body were for nutrition supply / waste removal etc. etc. Hence they don't shove anything into those holes to enter the matrix, merely shove that dirty great spike (and you thought needles were bad..) into the back of their head.
 
I can't say I've read all 8 pages of this, and I know the film has "deep meaning" if you want to actually spend the time thinking about it and not enjoying it.
But here are my reasons for thinking that Reloaded was a HOOGE let down

A) Morphieus' speech
B) The rave while Neo was [Tut tut]
C) The "Star Wars"yness of the whole council setting up defences bit
D) The bit in the French Restraunt
E) The fact that the guys in white were hardly used at all
F) The dialogue between most characters "Why am I here, you know why you're here, what choice do I have, you have already made your choice" etc...
G) The possibility of "the real world" actually being another matrix within the matrix
H) The talk with the architecht (see point F)
I) The "bum dum duuuuuuum" bit at the end

:D
X-Men 2 still has the crown of summer blockbuster to me.
 
You can explain plot and answer questions without being pretentious.
That's Reloaded's problem.
Trying to be too god damn cool for its own good and spoiling everything (For me anyway)
Whereas Matrix just WAS cool, and actually invented a whole new kind of cool that Reloaded coulden't even copy.
Weird that !!!
 
I haven't read all of the above 8 pages completely, so I hope no-one has asked/answered these questions yet:

1) When they are in the French restaurant and the lady is eating the chocolate cake, she turns into matrixy code and the camera goes between her legs. Is that 'explosion' between her legs what I think it is? :eek:

2) When the operator of Morpheus' ship (Link, I think) opens the door to his 'house' in Zion, does he say what I think he says? :eek:

3) What mountains is Neo in when Link tells him he's in the mountains? [just out of curiosity :p]


Thanks :)

P.S. I thought it was a good movie. The boring, slow, complicated, ununderstandable bits were a bit unneccessary, and all the scenes were drawn out a bit too long, but the quick one-liners ['Okay, you have some skill.'] and the action bits far outweighed them.
 
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