he does thats why he feels that something is different the illusion that it wasnt the matrix only last for a few minutes in the heat of battle but by the end he is beginning to realise that is why he can stop the sentinels.
just a theory anyway.
Matrix Reloaded - Discuss *[WARNING SPOILER]*
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he does thats why he feels that something is different the illusion that it wasnt the matrix only last for a few minutes in the heat of battle but by the end he is beginning to realise that is why he can stop the sentinels.
just a theory anyway.
its the spoon!!!!!
omg, its so obvious, a friend of mine told me (i guess i am retarted or sumthing) if they budha-like kid in the matrix was able to bend a spoon in the real world, what does that tell us about the real world?
it aint real!
whoa, il go study now!
omg, its so obvious, a friend of mine told me (i guess i am retarted or sumthing) if they budha-like kid in the matrix was able to bend a spoon in the real world, what does that tell us about the real world?
it aint real!
whoa, il go study now!
yeah, i was thinking this too, it would be good as doesnt mean that Zion is fake whcih would be lame. This would be a good way of analyzing Neo and maybe he has to try and escape this fake section to be able to go and save Trinity for real
so the red pill gradually worked on Neo to wake him up?? Although in the first film the red pil was designed to alter his input/output carrier signals so they could track his location in the hall where they were all in pods......dont think it actually did much to Neo himself as regards to waking up did it??
While I see what you are saying, I really think that the philosophical/theological components are overrated by people. Though there are the heavy-handed references, they aren't particularly deep, well-explored, or cohesive. Perhaps the Wachowski brothers get kudos for bringing philosophy-lite to a Hollywood audience, but I personally don't find that aspect of the film much more than of mild interest.Originally posted by daz
1) Do you understand the ideologies and references to various theologies throughout the film? Jesus is not the only religious figure to ever have lived.
2) Did you understand the storyline?
3) http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm
I can't understand how you failed to be entertained by such a great film - unless you either missed parts out or you completely mis-understood it/didn't understand it.
Of course, throwing in such a mis-mash of ideas keeps people guessing until the end of the trilogy, but I would argue that that is a bit of a cheap and cynical mechanic to base a series of movies on.
As for my personal views on the film in general, I have a lot of sympathy with Hellsmk2. You get the feeling that they realised that the main strength of the first film was the action scenes, and so they went overboard on those. While there were some excellent sequences, each fight scene just went on too long, and there really weren't enough fresh ideas to support them. I suppose that was most clear in the 'playground' scene, or whatever you want to call it. However another obvious place I felt this was the case was at the beginning. The opening couple of minutes were spectacular, and everything you might have hoped for from the Matrix sequel. However the falling gunfight between Trinity and the agent was overly protracted. I'm sure that if they had just cut some of that scene, and not been masturbating over their bullet effects so much, then it wouldn't have disrupted the flow, and retained the punchiness which the first scene established.
Other things... I could have used a slightly less one-dimensional representation of the relationship between Neo/Trinity. Lust is not equal to love, although it can seem to be an easier way of representing it. It seemed that whenever they were in a scene together it was necessary for them to have their lips locked so we could get the point. And the jealousy scene? Pointless, with entirely predicable reactions. Even had it been relevant, it was weakly done. Trinity's raising of the gun, and her oh-so-cliched one liner really could have been done better. Perhaps another scene they should have rewritten.
The rave has already been mentioned. I can't see how it is justifiable really. And guess what- yet again it went on too long. Those kind of scenes work wonderfully in some films (Human Traffic is one that comes instantly to mind), but it was just out of place here.
Gratuitousness is rife in the film, really. The fight scenes are milked for more than they are worth, any more subtle and philosophical pretensions are heavy-handedly spelt out, and I found that disappointing. I really enjoyed the film in parts, especially from between about the 2/3 to the 7/8 mark, but as a whole I was disappointed. I hope the sequel is less self-indulgent.
looked more like a hand crafted spoon or somethign the kid has made for him for a gift, and its a bit wrinkly as they haev limited tools in th real world. Thats how i saw it anyway, think that it was meant as a gift, a funny moment more than anything else, dont think there is too much to look into that one TBH
all this dissing of the rave scene.........although it was a bit pointless it was merely a short way of showing what kind of city Zion is, somethign they wanted to do in the first film but ran out of money so couldnt do it.........they just wanted to show us what the last human city was like, and at least they didnt just rush it and show us a 5 min scene, leaving us wondering what it was like there. Wasnt a great scene, but just think of it as the Wachowski's just wanting to put in somethign they missed from the first movie and an interesting way of showing what the last city would be like
I wish I had just read this thread rather than going to see the film. I love the whole story behind the Matrix but Reloaded, as a film, was truly awful. It was so boring I completely lost interest in it. The fight scenes were boring and just the same old stuff repeated over and over again. The script was terrible, so many 4 word scentences. And that's forgetting the mass of cheesey one liners. I would have been happy to walk out at any stage had I not been there with my mates (who all thought it was poop too).
Some of the CGI was diabolical. In the Neo v Smith x 1000 fight the swap from actors to CGI was pap. It looked more like an intro to a computer game when Neo is spinning around the pole. Just look at his face.
Overall, I'm wholely dissapointed in this film. And the way it's been done has, for me, ruined the first film too.
Some of the CGI was diabolical. In the Neo v Smith x 1000 fight the swap from actors to CGI was pap. It looked more like an intro to a computer game when Neo is spinning around the pole. Just look at his face.
Overall, I'm wholely dissapointed in this film. And the way it's been done has, for me, ruined the first film too.
went into this film with a open mind and really enjoyed it, i thought it gave a good grounding on the story and plot line leaving us with enough knowledge to go into the third film, all this talk about the cgi, i never even noticed it just some impressive special effects. All the hype has truly ruined some peoples enjoyment of the film but thats to be expected having the first one to live up to.
Originally posted by daz
1) Do you understand the ideologies and references to various theologies throughout the film? Jesus is not the only religious figure to ever have lived.
2) Did you understand the storyline?
3) http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm
And to quote myself
I did get the overall plot, but was it really necessary for me to go get a philosophy or religious studies degree in order to understand it? That is definitely not my idea of an entertaining evening.
Originally posted by daz
I can't understand how you failed to be entertained by such a great film - unless you either missed parts out or you completely mis-understood it/didn't understand it.
I thought I made that pretty clear in my original post, but I'll recap anyhow; poor acting, totally totally totally unnecessary scenes, poor effects in some parts, absolutely abysmal use of music throughout the film, clichéd to hell and back (I can't emphasize this one enough), trying to be "cool," "hip" and "with it" when it clearly wasn't (i.e., MTV Generation) and all this before you get to the part where the plot was hidden in this painful excuse for a film.
The film could also have had the best and most understandable plot ever, but the above reasons would still have meant it was complete utter pap for me (the rave scene was the worst scene ever, the clichéd German, the clichéd key maker, the fact that Keanu gave the worst performance of his career, Morpheus's nauseating "we will fight them on the beaches" speech, terrible one liners like "I need you" and "I'm not going to loose you (these may have decreased on the spew/ cliché meter had the actors actually put any emotion into them as well)).
The film did not entertain me pure and simple. The narrative was too long, too clichéd and in parts too fast to understand. The action was too long, tried too hard to set new standards and in the end not that impressive. It just totally blew chunks on every level. Give me Donnie Darko or Lost Highway (i.e. a film that makes you think, but doesn't need a doctorate to understand it) any day of the week.
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As far as I'm concerned, the philosophy of the Matrix was to be expected.
THe Wachowski brothers are renowned for their philosophical knowledge. One of the council men in the film is a top philosopher from one of the Ivy League Unis (I forget who he is or his name, someone here will surely enlighten me.) The brothers are fans of his work and offered him a part if he wanted it. He took that opportunity. They did filming during the day and on the first night the brothers took him to dinner. He was stunned by the bredth of the knowledge of philosophy, both main stream and obscure, that the brothers knew deeply. The dinner table discussion was very long and very deep.
There has been talk ever since the first Matrix about the whole philosophy, and how widely the brothers have studied philosophy. It was obvious that they were not out to create Hollywood type shallow movies. This was their movie, combining their loves; cartoons/manga and philosophy.
As I think I commented in my post, the ones who left the cinema dissapointed on Wednesday appeared to be the ones who were complaining because it wasn't the Beat-em-up action flick that the first film was.
Personally, if you go to a flick like that, with all the write up going on before it, and all the philosophical talk going on before it, you've got to expect it to be deep.
What was ludicrous was a local radio stations film reviewer slating the film, because he didn't get it. He'd only watched the Matrix once, a year ago, and he hadn't got that. How on earth he thought he'd get "Matrix: Reloaded" or even be able to do a film review when he didn't even understand the first film is beyond me.
THe Wachowski brothers are renowned for their philosophical knowledge. One of the council men in the film is a top philosopher from one of the Ivy League Unis (I forget who he is or his name, someone here will surely enlighten me.) The brothers are fans of his work and offered him a part if he wanted it. He took that opportunity. They did filming during the day and on the first night the brothers took him to dinner. He was stunned by the bredth of the knowledge of philosophy, both main stream and obscure, that the brothers knew deeply. The dinner table discussion was very long and very deep.
There has been talk ever since the first Matrix about the whole philosophy, and how widely the brothers have studied philosophy. It was obvious that they were not out to create Hollywood type shallow movies. This was their movie, combining their loves; cartoons/manga and philosophy.
As I think I commented in my post, the ones who left the cinema dissapointed on Wednesday appeared to be the ones who were complaining because it wasn't the Beat-em-up action flick that the first film was.
Personally, if you go to a flick like that, with all the write up going on before it, and all the philosophical talk going on before it, you've got to expect it to be deep.
What was ludicrous was a local radio stations film reviewer slating the film, because he didn't get it. He'd only watched the Matrix once, a year ago, and he hadn't got that. How on earth he thought he'd get "Matrix: Reloaded" or even be able to do a film review when he didn't even understand the first film is beyond me.
No, to understand Donnie Darko you have to read the book that they have in the film, which is around on the net. When you read that book it all becomes clear. IMHO thats a bit of a naff idea, how many people will be able to read a fictional book from a fictional film? Don't get me wrong I thought Donnie Darko was really very good. Its just that one little thing.
Oh and as a member of the MTV Generation i say it was cool hip and very trendy. But then I'm a fan of anime, kung fu, computers, action films, black shades, sci fi, the guys on the soundtracks, etc. I was a fan of those things before I saw the 1st film, and I loved the way it basically had everything I was into in one place.
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