Just watched the end of the 1st film (got it on DVD); and it does. In the final scene the whole ship is dead. I'm still trying to work out how in both "Enter The Matrix" and "The Matrix" they've got working emergency lighting.. but both ships are definately dead.
Matrix Reloaded - Discuss *[WARNING SPOILER]*
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Just watched the end of the 1st film (got it on DVD); and it does. In the final scene the whole ship is dead. I'm still trying to work out how in both "Enter The Matrix" and "The Matrix" they've got working emergency lighting.. but both ships are definately dead.
i found myself constantly coming up with questions that i cudnt answer, like when neo went through the door and was talkin to the architect, as he was talkin really quickly and confusing me, i thought to myself, is it human or is he a program? surely a program cannot create even more programs?
also as i was watchin that AMAZING fight between Smith (who has to be the coolest character if he changes his suit now) and neo and i was thinkin what kind of computers does it take to create sum of these effects?
sum of u think sum sceens weren't needed, i just think they gave u a broader understanding of the whole thing, like how the people on Zion live.
also i thought it looked like when smith coppied himself and picked up the phone, in neo's dream, thats probably in Revolution, cose the other dream about Trinity came true so i rekon the will too! the question is what will Smith do in the real world if he can get there?
also as i was watchin that AMAZING fight between Smith (who has to be the coolest character if he changes his suit now) and neo and i was thinkin what kind of computers does it take to create sum of these effects?
sum of u think sum sceens weren't needed, i just think they gave u a broader understanding of the whole thing, like how the people on Zion live.
also i thought it looked like when smith coppied himself and picked up the phone, in neo's dream, thats probably in Revolution, cose the other dream about Trinity came true so i rekon the will too! the question is what will Smith do in the real world if he can get there?
that part wasn't a dream part of neo's dream it actually happened. Smith is in the real world. He was the other guy in a coma at the end of the movie. YOu saw him a few times before as well. When he tried to kill Neo when he was leaving but got interuppted bu the kid. Also he was one trying to volenteer to kind neo's ship.
Associate
what an ace thread, check out this board for matrix theorys
http://www.inreview.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=57
http://www.inreview.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=57
Man of Honour
Where's Tank?
Soldato
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He went mad with a gun too 
Soldato
OMG! There are so many ways of looking at this.
Don't forget there are Alice in Wonderland references in this throughtout, and at the end of Alice in Wonderland, Alice wakes up (it was all a dream). Not sure if that would be the best ending though.
I also noticed that 90% of the people in Zion were black!
Don't forget there are Alice in Wonderland references in this throughtout, and at the end of Alice in Wonderland, Alice wakes up (it was all a dream). Not sure if that would be the best ending though.
I also noticed that 90% of the people in Zion were black!
I've just got back from seeing this. My verdict: the film was pure visual diarrhea.
What a total and complete waste of time. It was painful to sit through that film. It absolutely stunk. The only redeeming features were some of the special effects, such as the highway scene and the fight scene with the hundreds of agents (I say some, because others just looked plain ridiculous).
I'm not going to get into analyzing the actual plot: I'm sure there was one, but they tried their hardest to hide it in overly long narrative that, to be honest, made very little sense. Like most people I like a film that makes me think during and after it (such as Requiem For A Dream, Naked Lunch, Lost Highway, Night Of The Living Dead, etc), but this was just plain ridiculous. I wanted to be entertained, hopefully with a plot that was both intelligent and coherent. Whilst I'm sure there was an intelligent plot in their somewhere, I couldn't see it. It felt like I needed to watch the first film at the same time to continually cross reference certain parts, as well as a thesaurus to keep track of just what the heck they were babbling about. [edit] It also seems a little obvious that the third film will be "the discovery that they're still in a matrix," using the example of Neo stopping the machines at the end of the film (ie, abilities he uses when he is in the matrix, now carry over to the "real world," or second matrix)[/edit]
The film also made me want to vomit; how many clichés did they think they needed? Entering Zion was like entering heaven (the operators surrounded by a heavenly white light), pointless futuristic rave scene, soppy one liner’s between Trinity and Neo. The list is endless and it was pretty damn sickening after the first 20 minutes.
As for the rave scene itself, all I can say is WT HOLY F? I nearly walked out by the end of the scene. Firstly, it stunk of trying to rip off fantasy films such as Lord Of The Rings with that stupid stupid stupid stupid speech supposed to ready the remains of human population for the invasion. It was utterly unnecessary and horrible to watch (and I love the way how they inter-spliced "ye olde English" in with modern English; it sounded bad and it made me feel embarrassed to be sat there). As for the actual rave; it had no purpose or place under any circumstances ("YAY the end of the human race may be near, lets bash primitive tribal drums and rave the night away...").
At times, it also felt like I was watching a very very very very poor episode of Babylon 5 or Star Trek (I love star trek), especially the scenes with the high council, again speaking in "ye olde and noble English."
The use of music throughout the film also ruined the atmosphere. It was the most inappropriate, yet totally 100% clichéd pap I've heard in a film. It didn't fit anywhere. The whole film to me stank of self indulgence and tried way too hard to surpass the first one and others such as Lord Of The Rings. I really can't say enough just how painful it was to sit through this film (people in the row behind us were even sleeping at some points).
The film was the perfect example that good action scenes do not make a good movie. As I said early, some of the action scenes were stunning. It's just a real shame that the bits in between meant that when the action did start, it added absolutely nothing to the film and was not exciting in the slightest (and again, very predictable).
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Watching this disease tonight also reminded me of a lecture at university that was given regarding the original Matrix and its similarities to the Bible (heh, you only have to notice the name Trinity to see where some of the inspiration came from). Did the Vatican have a hand in making these films? I felt like I'd been forcefully pinned down and attempted to be spoon fed some faith tonight. I really hate this film... really really really hate this film. I'd rather take a nice long dip in a bath of acid, or go try and pet some 12 foot crocodiles then ever subject my eyes to this rubbish again. I've been to films in the past where I've gone back to see them a second time to better understand what was happening; this is a film I'm sure you do need to see several times to even start to appreciate it on some level and unfortunately I don't have the patience or the stomach to sit through it again.
The first Matrix was stylish, original, had a coherent and intelligent plot and was above all fun to watch. The sequal was a horrible multiple train wreck full of cliches, rip-offs, poor acting, cringeworthy moments and above all unbelievably painful to watch. I wouldn't say it was a boring film as no film that gets a reaction (good or bad) from the viewer can possibly be boring. However, it was not an enjoyable experience at all.
There's only one other film that I hated as much as Matrix Reloaded; the 30th anniversary edition of Night Of The Living Dead which was butchered by John Russo to include new footage and introduce God into the story.
Final score: 0 out of 10 (If I could go lower I would)
What a total and complete waste of time. It was painful to sit through that film. It absolutely stunk. The only redeeming features were some of the special effects, such as the highway scene and the fight scene with the hundreds of agents (I say some, because others just looked plain ridiculous).
I'm not going to get into analyzing the actual plot: I'm sure there was one, but they tried their hardest to hide it in overly long narrative that, to be honest, made very little sense. Like most people I like a film that makes me think during and after it (such as Requiem For A Dream, Naked Lunch, Lost Highway, Night Of The Living Dead, etc), but this was just plain ridiculous. I wanted to be entertained, hopefully with a plot that was both intelligent and coherent. Whilst I'm sure there was an intelligent plot in their somewhere, I couldn't see it. It felt like I needed to watch the first film at the same time to continually cross reference certain parts, as well as a thesaurus to keep track of just what the heck they were babbling about. [edit] It also seems a little obvious that the third film will be "the discovery that they're still in a matrix," using the example of Neo stopping the machines at the end of the film (ie, abilities he uses when he is in the matrix, now carry over to the "real world," or second matrix)[/edit]
The film also made me want to vomit; how many clichés did they think they needed? Entering Zion was like entering heaven (the operators surrounded by a heavenly white light), pointless futuristic rave scene, soppy one liner’s between Trinity and Neo. The list is endless and it was pretty damn sickening after the first 20 minutes.
As for the rave scene itself, all I can say is WT HOLY F? I nearly walked out by the end of the scene. Firstly, it stunk of trying to rip off fantasy films such as Lord Of The Rings with that stupid stupid stupid stupid speech supposed to ready the remains of human population for the invasion. It was utterly unnecessary and horrible to watch (and I love the way how they inter-spliced "ye olde English" in with modern English; it sounded bad and it made me feel embarrassed to be sat there). As for the actual rave; it had no purpose or place under any circumstances ("YAY the end of the human race may be near, lets bash primitive tribal drums and rave the night away...").
At times, it also felt like I was watching a very very very very poor episode of Babylon 5 or Star Trek (I love star trek), especially the scenes with the high council, again speaking in "ye olde and noble English."
The use of music throughout the film also ruined the atmosphere. It was the most inappropriate, yet totally 100% clichéd pap I've heard in a film. It didn't fit anywhere. The whole film to me stank of self indulgence and tried way too hard to surpass the first one and others such as Lord Of The Rings. I really can't say enough just how painful it was to sit through this film (people in the row behind us were even sleeping at some points).
The film was the perfect example that good action scenes do not make a good movie. As I said early, some of the action scenes were stunning. It's just a real shame that the bits in between meant that when the action did start, it added absolutely nothing to the film and was not exciting in the slightest (and again, very predictable).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watching this disease tonight also reminded me of a lecture at university that was given regarding the original Matrix and its similarities to the Bible (heh, you only have to notice the name Trinity to see where some of the inspiration came from). Did the Vatican have a hand in making these films? I felt like I'd been forcefully pinned down and attempted to be spoon fed some faith tonight. I really hate this film... really really really hate this film. I'd rather take a nice long dip in a bath of acid, or go try and pet some 12 foot crocodiles then ever subject my eyes to this rubbish again. I've been to films in the past where I've gone back to see them a second time to better understand what was happening; this is a film I'm sure you do need to see several times to even start to appreciate it on some level and unfortunately I don't have the patience or the stomach to sit through it again.
The first Matrix was stylish, original, had a coherent and intelligent plot and was above all fun to watch. The sequal was a horrible multiple train wreck full of cliches, rip-offs, poor acting, cringeworthy moments and above all unbelievably painful to watch. I wouldn't say it was a boring film as no film that gets a reaction (good or bad) from the viewer can possibly be boring. However, it was not an enjoyable experience at all.
There's only one other film that I hated as much as Matrix Reloaded; the 30th anniversary edition of Night Of The Living Dead which was butchered by John Russo to include new footage and introduce God into the story.
Final score: 0 out of 10 (If I could go lower I would)
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Top film. Just come back from watching it.
Went in expecting just an enjoyable film, so it was better than expected. More storyline than anticipated as well.
O/T - The Last Samurai film that trailer before hand looked rather good, as did the new version of the T3 trailer (made T3 look rather good, rather than pants which the older trailer did).
Back On Topic - Anyway, can't wait till the final part.
Went in expecting just an enjoyable film, so it was better than expected. More storyline than anticipated as well.
Well, I believe that black and asian people are a majority in the world population as a whole. Yes, I know 90% would be too high a figure.... but I think the proportion of different races in Zion reflected the globe as a whole, rather than just the US or Europe.
O/T - The Last Samurai film that trailer before hand looked rather good, as did the new version of the T3 trailer (made T3 look rather good, rather than pants which the older trailer did).
Back On Topic - Anyway, can't wait till the final part.
Saw it tonight, was better than I though it would be but some of the fight scenes were overly long, that fight with the agents was fine for a couple of minutes then it just got boring and was completely pointless in the end cos he just flew off when he had enough.
One thing tho, Keanu Reeves can do that whole fightin stuff that impressed me but his "I love you too damn much" line was just pathetic, absolutely no emotion at all and why did that person get cast as Trinity, I expect a leadin actress to be able to act and if she cant shes gotta at least be nice to look at, the Oracle would have probably looked better in that catsuit than Trinity did.
One thing tho, Keanu Reeves can do that whole fightin stuff that impressed me but his "I love you too damn much" line was just pathetic, absolutely no emotion at all and why did that person get cast as Trinity, I expect a leadin actress to be able to act and if she cant shes gotta at least be nice to look at, the Oracle would have probably looked better in that catsuit than Trinity did.
he flew off only because he had fought them back enough to be able to.
he needs a good couple of seconds to be able to fly, the agents were not giving him that time until he broke away from them long enough to change the matrix to allow him to fly away.
he needs a good couple of seconds to be able to fly, the agents were not giving him that time until he broke away from them long enough to change the matrix to allow him to fly away.
1) Do you understand the ideologies and references to various theologies throughout the film? Jesus is not the only religious figure to ever have lived.
2) Did you understand the storyline?
3) http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm
I can't understand how you failed to be entertained by such a great film - unless you either missed parts out or you completely mis-understood it/didn't understand it.
Also the black skin colour gene is the dominant allele, which means that after a few generations, everyone will be mixed up, but mostly black.
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Soldato
For and against time.
For Zion being another matrix:
Neo controlling machines
Neo being able to see into the matrix while unplugged
The Oracle being able to see out of the matrix, and know whats going on with Neo and Trinity
Against
If everything has been predestined, pre-written, if there is no real control, and The One is meant to join the source, then why would the machines allow Neo's fate to be that of falling in love with Trinity thus blinding him from making the logical choice?
For that one reason, my head is spinning. There are reasons to support a 2nd matrix, but at the same time there is one singular reason that destroys that reason. Why? Because what is logical about designing two systems, one main one and the other a redunant system to house glitches from the first, then to design an elaborate system of finding these glitches, only to create a glitch that is destined to destroy it? What kind of mathematical purity is there in that?
The machines definetly understand, and know love. Persephone says that the Merovingian did use love her. They would know that Neo loves Trinity (well they do) but they would also know that someone saying "She's dead, theres nothing u can do" would still not stop him from trying. Why? Matrix 1. Neo believes that he can bring Morpheus back from the agents holding him, and he does. Neo also believes he can save Trinity and he does. The Architect was right, Trinity did die and Neo didn't save her from that. He did however bring her back to life. Again, I do believe that this was just to help push Neo towards the door on the right, towards rejoining the source. Like the threat of destroying humanity, I believe that the Architect is afraid of what Neo will become. The Architect does say what he is afraid of, he is afraid of Neo destroying the system, of causing it to crash, of destroying his suppoesdly mathematically perfect system.
For Zion being another matrix:
Neo controlling machines
Neo being able to see into the matrix while unplugged
The Oracle being able to see out of the matrix, and know whats going on with Neo and Trinity
Against
If everything has been predestined, pre-written, if there is no real control, and The One is meant to join the source, then why would the machines allow Neo's fate to be that of falling in love with Trinity thus blinding him from making the logical choice?
For that one reason, my head is spinning. There are reasons to support a 2nd matrix, but at the same time there is one singular reason that destroys that reason. Why? Because what is logical about designing two systems, one main one and the other a redunant system to house glitches from the first, then to design an elaborate system of finding these glitches, only to create a glitch that is destined to destroy it? What kind of mathematical purity is there in that?
The machines definetly understand, and know love. Persephone says that the Merovingian did use love her. They would know that Neo loves Trinity (well they do) but they would also know that someone saying "She's dead, theres nothing u can do" would still not stop him from trying. Why? Matrix 1. Neo believes that he can bring Morpheus back from the agents holding him, and he does. Neo also believes he can save Trinity and he does. The Architect was right, Trinity did die and Neo didn't save her from that. He did however bring her back to life. Again, I do believe that this was just to help push Neo towards the door on the right, towards rejoining the source. Like the threat of destroying humanity, I believe that the Architect is afraid of what Neo will become. The Architect does say what he is afraid of, he is afraid of Neo destroying the system, of causing it to crash, of destroying his suppoesdly mathematically perfect system.
what if everything that happens after neo wlaks through the trinity door is actually a compputer generated matrix just for neo ? by giving him the illusion of saving trinity, becoming the one outside in the real world may be a ploy to keep him occupied while the machines analyse data on ways to destroy him and take hm out in the real matrix ?
Neo essentially stopping the sentinels could simply be because he is in a second matrix created just for him ? This would mean zion is still real its just the machines have recreated it inside a specially constructed matrix just for neo.
Neo essentially stopping the sentinels could simply be because he is in a second matrix created just for him ? This would mean zion is still real its just the machines have recreated it inside a specially constructed matrix just for neo.
Permabanned
I know what u mean - I am one of those people that is lucky enough to realise when i am dreaming so i can whatever i want - quite useful
Maybe we've got this Matrix thing all confused and maybe were looking too deep for an answer
Soldato
Originally posted by Fatman
I know what u mean - I am one of those people that is lucky enough to realise when i am dreaming so i can whatever i want - quite useful
Maybe we've got this Matrix thing all confused and maybe were looking too deep for an answer
I get that too!. I might fall from a building and start to panic, then I say to myself "Im only dreaming", and let myself fall and land, upharmed.
Maybe the matrix is a a dream state?, Maybe that line line in the first film will rear its head again?
"Wake up Neo"
Soldato
It's called Lucid dreaming and anyone can do it with practice (apparently!). I think Neo will wake up at the end. I like the idea that Neo has walked into a simulation through the "Trinity door", but wouldn't he be able to see it for the trick it was?
Permabanned
Indeed it is called Lucid Dreaming
Once you realise your dreaing - think of the possibilities(
Once you realise your dreaing - think of the possibilities
(Hmm Recursion.
The matrix is a recursive - the N times that's occurred before and the 'real' world are recursions.
Unplugging is just stepping back one level.
Also it's making the obvious statement about living patterns and that patterns can occur at all levels.
The other guy in the coma is actually Mr Smith, however Mr Smith is a virus, the virus has spread to a human host in essence taking the idea of both life replication as a form of computer virus and the idea of 'evil' corrupting the young.
Another way is saying that developers actually infect machines by replicating life 'real world' patterns because they are programmed to replicate - even if this is small patterns or more complicated patterns. The reason we don't replicate by means other than sex is because we lack the knowledge to replicate the human body.
Graphically a good film.
Quality of action was reasonable, however the people he killed on attempting to get the Plot master (I mean key master)..
Hmm.. the first had clarity of mind, presenting ideas for consideration clearly. The second didn't, there where ideas there however they are simplistic and don't make think like the previous film.
The matrix is a recursive - the N times that's occurred before and the 'real' world are recursions.
Unplugging is just stepping back one level.
Also it's making the obvious statement about living patterns and that patterns can occur at all levels.
The other guy in the coma is actually Mr Smith, however Mr Smith is a virus, the virus has spread to a human host in essence taking the idea of both life replication as a form of computer virus and the idea of 'evil' corrupting the young.
Another way is saying that developers actually infect machines by replicating life 'real world' patterns because they are programmed to replicate - even if this is small patterns or more complicated patterns. The reason we don't replicate by means other than sex is because we lack the knowledge to replicate the human body.
Graphically a good film.
Quality of action was reasonable, however the people he killed on attempting to get the Plot master (I mean key master)..
Hmm.. the first had clarity of mind, presenting ideas for consideration clearly. The second didn't, there where ideas there however they are simplistic and don't make think like the previous film.
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