spot on
May 20 is ‘Everybody Draw Mohammed Day’
- Thread starter Hatter The Mad
- Start date
- Status
spot on
Associate
What question? do you mean the missing link ? I think some of the posters on here are good examples
You still haven't accounted for why you felt the need to lol at my post as if it was total rubbish when it's an excepted fact & then post the above referring to body hair,lol
I must check the hair all over my old Wifes body next time she gets goosebumps to see if your correct
Soldato
Caporegime
Right On!!
well it is true isnt it??...but then on the other hand you have people saying that the bible has changed with the times ie Christianity is evolving etc etc whereas Islam is stuck in the middle ages so to speak. I can understand that arguement and to some extent it is true because you have certain groups of muslims who have completely twisted the meaning of islam and the Quran.Where on the other hand you have other muslims who say nope their version of islam is wrong.
All i know is that the islam i practise along with my family and my fiancee is the islam that ive grown up with all my life....i dont know anything about the extremist version of Islam and neither do i care for it.
Where on the other hand you have other muslims who say nope their version of islam is wrong.
All i know is that the islam i practise along with my family and my fiancee is the islam that ive grown up with all my life....i dont know anything about the extremist version of Islam and neither do i care for it.
So you don't follow the kuran then you like me have adopted your own version of a religion that sort of suits your needs.
Religion and following a set of rules prescribed by man as you will agree is just plain wrong however gleaning what you feel is right from the information given there is no problem with.
In reality it's best to cast off the views of an acient book even the bible that as you say seems to keep being re-written and follow what you beleive in your heart to be true regardless of people that think you live in wonderland because you want to believe something that they think is a fairy tale.
Of course the worst offender has been suspended ............... it's a shame
Soldato
Where on the other hand you have other muslims who say nope their version of islam is wrong.
All i know is that the islam i practise along with my family and my fiancee is the islam that ive grown up with all my life....i dont know anything about the extremist version of Islam and neither do i care for it.
True. The moment you modify the fundamentals of religion which includes not just creed but also original language, you spoil that religion forever. The religion loses its originality completely. Also it's not that Islam is stuck in the middle ages. Islam is meant to be a universal religion which appreciates all different cultures.
The problem only occurs when Islam or any religion for that matter is twisted to suit cultural norms. In the case of islam this ends in the religion appearing medieval.
Best example I can think of is saudi model which is a very very poor and extreme literalist interpretation of Islam. From this example you would end up with a very dry environment where gender is segregated and I think this is the biggest blunder and downfall for any social and educational progress. Hell I would die if I couldn't talk and interact with women in the society
.In this case the intellectual inquiry stales and people no longer show any interest in discovering different types of knowledges. In such a society if you are seen talking to women you would immediately be frowned upon. IMHO This destroys society!!.
Whereas In Quran God says' Read! In the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created,
[2] Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
[3] Proclaim! and thy Lord is Most Bountiful,
[4] He Who taught (the use of) the Pen,
[5] Taught man that which he knew not.
So Quran clearly encourages readers to seek knowledge as God himself is the source of Knowledge. Also in other passages Quran states' go to men of knowledge'. So clearly Quran is encouraging us to go to men of knowledge and this can be interpreted as teachers, doctors, biologists, chemists, artists, musical experts etc in the modern sense. Obviously God isn't gonna give knowledge on the plate.
So when people just concentrate on islamic rituals they forego the spirit of intellectual inquiry which is a must!! and an integral part of Islam.
Take my example. Just 3 months ago I hardly knew anything about PC building or PC in general. I wanted to install latest version of cad software but my 6 years old pc with amd athlon xp 3000+ cpu and ati radeon 9200 se wouldn't install and run it. So after researching many different websites including ocuk I managed to build my first pc with [email protected] and ati 5850; huge! jump from 9200 se. I am very much enjoying using it now and feel I have become competent at PC building and pc in general. Ofcourse I am still learning
.What question? do you mean the missing link ? I think some of the posters on here are good examples
You still haven't accounted for why you felt the need to lol at my post as if it was total rubbish when it's an excepted fact & then post the above referring to body hair,lol
I must check the hair all over my old Wifes body next time she gets goosebumps to see if your correct
So you and Usher are the same person, as it was his post. Also Evolution is accepted Theory, not accepted Fact.
I was merely pointing out that if you are going to make an example using Evolution then at least get that example correct.
What do you mean by that? As in, what is the purpose behind that comment?
The Koran was written to suit the desires of man.
See, I can play religious Top Trumps too!
Caporegime
But it wasnt no matter how you like to paint it
...Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the book of divine guidance and direction for humanity and consider the text in its original Arabic to be the literal word of God, revealed to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel over a period of twenty-three years and view the Qur’an as God's final revelation to humanity.
Caporegime
So you don't follow the kuran then you like me have adopted your own version of a religion that sort of suits your needs.
Religion and following a set of rules prescribed by man as you will agree is just plain wrong however gleaning what you feel is right from the information given there is no problem with.
In reality it's best to cast off the views of an acient book even the bible that as you say seems to keep being re-written and follow what you beleive in your heart to be true regardless of people that think you live in wonderland because you want to believe something that they think is a fairy tale.
Of course the worst offender has been suspended ............... it's a shame
Nope wrong...i still believe in the fundamentals of islam and the Quran and i havent modified it to suit my own needs and ends.
I just dont follow the extremist version of Islam that was what i was trying to say...the kind of islam that extremists/terrorists practice ie the violent side of it.
As for the worst offender being suspended...oh well he should have kept his mouth shut...he made a disparaging remark against the Dons here.
Exactly what is says, If we are going to discuss Evolution as a way to refute Religion then lets at least get the terminology correct.
There are competeing hypothesis over the Origin of Homo Sapiens Sapiens, and I was simply stating in the first case, that Piloerection was not the best example of evolution he could have given.
If you recall I have argued against Creationists and their five propositions in other threads....refuting each in turn.
It is however interesting when discussing creationism that they believe that all living things were created by God, in other words as single Progenitor. Charles Darwin said, and I quote
Who or what breathed life in that single Primordial form?
(I'd like to make it clear that I am playing devil's advocate here and I do not neccessarily ascribe to some of the arguments I've made on a personal level, it just interesting to me to debate it from a certain standpoint.)
EDIT: Although it would seem on further investigation that piloerection is regarded as vestigial in Humans so I am mistaken and retract that. Although it was a good way to say Piloerection a few times...
Last edited:
Soldato
I believe the oldest quranic text known as 'Quran of Uthman' whose content which dates back to time of prophet Muhammed was compiled under the guidance of Uthman(close companion and son in law of Prophet Muhammed) after death of Prophet Muhammed and checked by Ali ibn Talib (cousin of Prophet Muhammed and 2nd most important islamic figure) is placed in an istanbul museaum in Turkey.
Now I dare you to take any book of Quran and go and compare it to that original Quran. I am 100% sure you won't find any +/- arabic words in either the new quran or the original quran.
Ah, I missed the use of the word fact in the post you were quoting.
lol yes, it was created by men as was God or Gods.
Soldato
But it wasnt no matter how you like to paint it
Actually we have no idea if it was or not. You cannot conclusively say it was divinely inspired anymore than I can say it wasn't. It certainly was politically helpful though.
That may well be what they believe, but it doesn't make it true. So it could well have been written by man for man. A spiritual book for a political purpose.. Certainly wouldn't be the only time in history that has happened.
Thank you for that well considered arguement. I stand corrected and am now ready to convert...
I believe the oldest quranic text known as 'Quran of Uthman' whose content which dates back to time of prophet Muhammed was compiled under the guidance of Uthman(close companion and son in law of Prophet Muhammed) after death of Prophet Muhammed and checked by Ali ibn Talib (cousin of Prophet Muhammed and 2nd most important islamic figure) is placed in an istanbul museaum in Turkey.
Now I dare you to take any book of Quran and go and compare it to that original Quran. I am 100% sure you won't find any +/- arabic words in either the new quran or the original quran.
Considering my heretical state I think it unlikely that I would be able to do such a comparison...
However, there are a few other problems. The first is that the Koran of Uthman probably isn't (an Uthman Koran) and could actually date to about 100-150 years after Mohammed's death. It also isn't in Turkey, you are thinking of another old Koran, dating from about the same time. Lets assume that these Korans however do match the current arabic ones in circulation (mostly, arabic script has evolved after all). So you have a period of 150 years where the Koran could have been changed. Also what is to say that the Uthman Korans are actually accurate and were not changed for political reasons? The only documents you have are the Koran itself and hadiths written by those that may well have altered the text.
Finally, it could very well be that the Koran is exactly as Mohammed wrote it (if he did indeed write it) but that doesn't actually mean it is true. Men using religion as a tool is quite an old practice after all.
One, the Samakand Codex is in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. The other,The Topkapi Manuscript is in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul, Turkey. The Kufic Script suggests that both were written at least 150 years after the death of Mohammed.
It should be noted that Kufic was known in Mesopotamia 100 years prior to the founding of Kufa, Iraq where the name is derived, meaning that the manuscripts may well date earlier than Martin Ling (a Qur'an scholar, yet interestingly also a Christian) and Yasin Safadi suggests. The original claim was that of another Christian, John Gilchrist.
Safadi also contradicts this assertion in his book 'Islamic Calligraphy' where he details Kufic Script being used during the period of Caliph Abd al-Malik 685-705.
It may well be a case of if it is repeated often enough it becomes fact, irrespective of the truth.
As for your final point...We have no way of knowing if Mohammed, an alleged uneducated man, 'dictated' the word of God correctly in the first place. It may well be the truth, yet erroneously expressed.
You couldn't compare a modern Qur'an as WingZero suggests as neither Qur'an is complete or readable.
Last edited:
- Status