May 20 is ‘Everybody Draw Mohammed Day’

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What was the precise demographic of each country involved?, why do Census figures differ so widely from a random poll, maybe because a Census takes in vastly more people and gives a truer account of the statistics.

What if the Christian God is the true god and your born in Turkey? What if the Islamic God is the true one and youre born in Italy and so on.

How is having a choice unfair?

You are trying to attach significance to some kind of unfairness that you personally feel over your lack if Faith. I'm agnostic, born into a deeply Christian family, my wife is Irish Catholic, I feel no such sense of unfairness nor do I believe as they do or have any propensity to do so.

I just think your argument is slightly spurious, especially as belief is a profoundly individual and personal thing anyway.
You're missing the point surely? I'll try and make it a simple yes/no.

And remember we're looking at the cornerstone of some faiths here where they declare if you do not believe in God, then you go to hell.

So, do you believe, no matter where someone is born, no matter into what country, into what culture, into what time period, into what circumstances, and what events befalls them during their life. Everyone one has exactly the same liklihood of believing?

I cannot see how any can believe this is the case? ie: Pick a hundred people at random in one culture/country where faith is highly integrated into it, and the norm, and then pick a hundred peolpe at random from a less religious based cuture/country. The final figures will reflect this surely?
 
you also seem to be mistaken into thinking that as soon as you pass childhood that you're destined to hell........ only you can take yourself there.

You're missing the obvious point I'm afraid. I'll try and simplify it.

Had I died when young according to many religions I'd go straight to heaven. Where as, now, as I'm older, this is in the balance. If I don't happen to end my days believing in God, then Hell it is.

So consider this:-
- Had I died young then I would have gone straigtt to heaven.
- Had I died at about 15, I could have gone straight to heaven as at that time my indoctrination into religion (due to culture) meant at that early age I believed in God.
- Should I die that this very second, I will go to hell as I don't believe.

Given the majority of us have to take the most important test ever (ie: live our lives and decide if we believe in God or not, ultimately deciding if we end up in Heaven or Hell), how is it, some individuals don't have to take this test because they are killed or die young? Why should some people get such preferential treatment? Why wasn't I lucky enough to die young and secure my no questions asked entry to Heaven?

In short, what sort of a test is this, when some people don't even have to sit it to pass? Who decides who these lucky individuals are? Why is that person over there, and not you or I, who gets to go straight to Heaven no questions asked?
 
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You're missing the point surely? I'll try and make it a simple yes/no.

And remember we're looking at the cornerstone of some faiths here where they declare if you do not believe in God, then you go to hell.

So, do you believe, no matter where someone is born, no matter into what country, into what culture, into what time period, into what circumstances, and what events befalls them during their life. Everyone one has exactly the same liklihood of believing?

I cannot see how any can believe this is the case? ie: Pick a hundred people at random in one culture/country where faith is highly integrated into it, and the norm, and then pick a hundred peolpe at random from a less religious based cuture/country. The final figures will reflect this surely?

Yes everyone has freewill, so everyone has an equal choice to believe or not. Whether they are willing or able to admit their belief depending on their location or regime they live under is another question entirely.
 
Yes everyone has freewill, so everyone has an equal choice to believe or not. Whether they are willing or able to admit their belief depending on their location or regime they live under is another question entirely.

Just cannot agree with that I'm afraid... You're suggesting the chance of believing in God is in no way swayed by location/culture of birth? You're suggesting your chance of believing in God is in no way swayed by year of birth?

Here's europe in 2005, with a poll of "do you believe in God":-
300px-Europe_belief_in_god.svg.png


Here's a graph of belief in the UK over a 20yr period:-
500px-Bsa-religion-question.svg.png


Are these figures accurate? We can debate that, but I think we can surely say that different cultures/locations/years result in a different propensity to believe in God? If you're brought up in a highly religious culture, you stand a higher chance of believing in God, than if you were brought up in a highly atheistic culture. It's not black and white, but statictically the odds are there!


Your reluctance to acknowledge this confused me..
 
Just cannot agree with that I'm afraid... You're suggesting the chance of believing in God is in no way swayed by location/culture of birth? You're suggesting your chance of believing in God is in no way swayed by year of birth?

Here's europe in 2005, with a poll of "do you believe in God":-
300px-Europe_belief_in_god.svg.png


Here's a graph of belief in the UK over a 20yr period:-
500px-Bsa-religion-question.svg.png


Are these figures accurate? We can debate that, but I think we can surely say that different cultures/locations/years result in a different propensity to believe in God? If you're brought up in a highly religious culture, you stand a higher chance of believing in God, than if you were brought up in a highly atheistic culture. It's not black and white, but statictically the odds are there!


Your reluctance to acknowledge this confused me..


Yet there is a difference between belief in God and adherence to a specific religion. I agree you chances of following a specific religion can be determined somewhat by the local culture of he region in which you are born, but that doesn't affect each persons ability to choose a basic belief in a God.
 
My God and my faith fits the Nicene creed -

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.


Do you believe in Jesus? If so, tell me why the word of your prophet is more important than the word of the son of God.

We believe in Jesus Christ peace be upon him, as a prophet and a messenger of God, who was born miraculously without any male intervention. We believe he was raised up and one of the major signs of the hour, will be his return.

However, we absolutely DO NOT believe that Jesus Christ pbuh was God, or the son of God.

You have gone against the very teachings of Jesus if you believe this, you were commanded your Lord is One God. If you believe that Jesus pbuh was God, then you believe that God came to earth as a human being, and that God ate food and drank water, and went to sleep etc. God is not limited by such things, we as humans are. You cannot compare God to anything else in creation. This is what muslims believe concerning Jesus Christ pbuh:


HIS BIRTH:

When the angels said, 'O Mary, God gives thee glad tidings of a son through a word from HIM; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;

'And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of the righteous.

She said, 'My Lord, how shall I have a son, when no man has touched me? He said, 'Such is the way of God. HE creates what HE pleases. When HE decrees a thing HE says to it 'Be,' and it is;"—Qur'an, Surah (3:38)

HOLY TRINITY:

People of the Book, do not go beyond the bounds in your religion, and say nought as to God but the Truth. The messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the messenger of God, and his word (Fulfilment of his word (Fulfilment of His command, through the word "Be", for the creation of Jesus) that he committed to Mary, and a spirit originating from Him (was given life by God). So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not 'Trinity'. Refrain, better it is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to him-that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the Heavens and in the Earth; God suffices for a guardian.

The Messiah will not disdain to be a servant of God, neither the Angels who are close to Him. Whosoever disdains to serve Him and walks proud, He will assuredly muster them to Him, all of them. (3:171-172)

CRUCIFIXION:

That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge;
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them (4:156)


ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT:

"And God will say, 'O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, "Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God"? He will say, 'To you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, you would have known it, knowing what is within my heart, though I do not know your knowledge; you know the things unseen. I only said to them what you did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." (5:116)



The Quran also speaks of many miracles that Jesus pbuh performed, all ofcourse by Gods will. As the Bible confirms:

I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)

All power belongs to God.
 
Anyone who thinks a God made the universe with all it's billions of galaxies and billions of solar systems among them is really mentaly ill and should probably seek help.
 
Anyone who thinks a God made the universe with all it's billions of galaxies and billions of solar systems among them is really mentaly ill and should probably seek help.

Anyone who thinks the universe with all it's billions of galaxies and billions of solar systems, came about by itself should probably seek help?
 
we absolutely DO NOT believe that Jesus Christ pbuh was God, or the son of God.

You can quote the Quran all you like but it still doesn't change the the fact that you agree that Jesus was born of Mary through God. The Creed states 'begotten, not made, of one being with the Father' and does that not say to you that Jesus is the son of God?

Son of God beats self proclaimed prophet any day. A pity that God has not released a Top Trumps pack of his messengers. :)
 
My God and my faith fits the Nicene creed -

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.


Do you believe in Jesus? If so, tell me why the word of your prophet is more important than the word of the son of God.

I would like to say few things. First of all it would seem strange that while a God was overseeing His creation, another God was being created in a womb of a woman in a form of a man who is part of the same God:confused:. So this would imply God has duality and that His 'Divine Essence' has been divided which in islam and judaism means being One in Absolute Form and that the so called 'Father' would be carrying out different commands like allowing Jesus to be killed while the 'son' would have no choice but to be 'killed'. This would imply more of a master-slave relationship involving two beings. This would be known as polytheism from islamic and jewish point of view.
From 'Divine Essence' point of view this would imply 'I am going to divide myself in partly divine form and partly human form so first I will send myself to my creation and then after a period of time I am going to get myself killed by my creation. If God gets killed then the whole creation is destroyed. Hmm I wonder why we are still here:D.

Also it would appear that right from Jesus birth, him being in a 'man form' which we don't know how it appears would be controlling the whole universe and beyond. What happens to the 'father' now:D ?
So while Jesus was sleeping he would know exactly what is happening. So while Jesus was walking and talking with his disciples he would also be creating children in the womb of mothers (women) who also happen to be his creations. He would also be causing countless humans to die while he was having a nice meal in his home prepared by his creation.
While Jesus (God) was being killed on the cross (according to christian tradition) by his creation, there would be business and trade taking place in far east or africa or anywhere else for that matter.

And those people (creation) that killed Jesus (God) would already be damned. And if jesus forgave them then that would mean 'I created myself in human form and I allowed myself to be killed by you whom I also created and today I forgive you'.:p.

My statements may seem contradictory but that's cause the duality of God is contradictory and confusing for logical minds.:p

If you met an average joe on street and he claimed I am son of god and control the whole universe and know everything while I asleep, you would immediately say he has gone mad and would probably send him to mental hospital.

The thing is if christians claim Prophet Muhammed was a madman and a liar, then what evidence do they have that jesus was god when Bible doesn't even mention jesus sa saying that I am god and worship me. Jesus could easily be another madman and an imposter and as such has already been rejected by judaism and jews.

Its funny that atheists reject all religions, christianity rejects islamic theology and islam rejects christian theology and judaism rejects islam and christianity. However one thing both judaism and islam agree upon is the definition of God which is One true God in absolute form without any partner and rivals and that God doesn't come in human form.

Moreover When God spoke to Moses, Moses never referred to him as Jesus and that there is no mention in Torah of jesus being son of god or god or in Quran for that matter.

When comparing western traditions to islamic traditions it is wrong to say judeo-christian traditions vs islamic traditions. Judaism is a middle eastern semitic religion just like Islam is a middle eastern semitic religion. Both religions have same outlook on God as I mentioned before and have many similarities. Both the Hebrew and Arabic are semitic languages and both the hebrews and arabs are cousins and related to Abraham.

In fact there is a youtube video where a yemeni jew is explaining about the similarities between islam and judaism with regards to the definition of God. He mentions that 'Eloah' or 'Elah' is used in hebrew to mean One God:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw0BFMRQFPI&feature=related

Also I would like to know what happened to original bible as it must have been written in aramaic, the language jesus claimed to spoke. It seems that nowadays you have so many versions of Bible and written in so many languages, I doubt they even mean the same thing. As for Quran it is still written in arabic language. So the core content of Quran remains the same as it was more than 1400 years ago. But we have translations of arabic in various languages for non arabic people to understand.

In the end from islamic Point of View, God is One in absolute form. So in this sense Judaism and even unitarian christians would be closer to Islam. Adam to Muhammed are God's prophets and slaves including Moses and Jesus. Jesus had miraculous birth and in the case of Adam he was born without any mother or father yet they are all just humans. Nothing else. They are all referred to as brothers among themselves. If christians claim Jesus is divine then he must know about Prophet Muhammed. I would like to know the Jesus stance on prophet Muhammed.;)
 
You can quote the Quran all you like but it still doesn't change the the fact that you agree that Jesus was born of Mary through God. The Creed states 'begotten, not made, of one being with the Father' and does that not say to you that Jesus is the son of God?

Yes Jesus was born of Mary. The prophet Adam was created by God directly with NO mother or father. Eve was created from Adam. Do they not have more of a claim of being the son/daughter of God then Jesus?

If you say that God, has had a son, you are crossing a line into disbelief. You no longer believe in the One God that Jesus spent his whole life preaching about, you have infact gone against the very first commandment.


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TipTop
Suspended

:p
 
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You can quote the Quran all you like but it still doesn't change the the fact that you agree that Jesus was born of Mary through God. The Creed states 'begotten, not made, of one being with the Father' and does that not say to you that Jesus is the son of God?

Son of God beats self proclaimed prophet any day. A pity that God has not released a Top Trumps pack of his messengers. :)

What is this...Religious Top Trumps. Jesus tops Mohammed, but God trumps Jesus...what about the Jewish lot. Who trumps Noah.

And isn't Jesus just part of the Holy Trinity so is in fact God or at least one third of him.
 
Surely then as a loving and caring parent the very best thing you can do for your child is to kill them before they reach adulthood? Sure it means you have damned yourself to Hell but at least you have ensured Heaven for your child. After all, what is a few years extra of life against an eternity in Heaven?


if that is your train of thought then why bother to have kids......

would it not be better to just educate them about religion ?
 
You're missing the obvious point I'm afraid. I'll try and simplify it.

Had I died when young according to many religions I'd go straight to heaven. Where as, now, as I'm older, this is in the balance. If I don't happen to end my days believing in God, then Hell it is.

So consider this:-
- Had I died young then I would have gone straigtt to heaven.
- Had I died at about 15, I could have gone straight to heaven as at that time my indoctrination into religion (due to culture) meant at that early age I believed in God.
- Should I die that this very second, I will go to hell as I don't believe.

Given the majority of us have to take the most important test ever (ie: live our lives and decide if we believe in God or not, ultimately deciding if we end up in Heaven or Hell), how is it, some individuals don't have to take this test because they are killed or die young?


no my previous post covered it.
if a child dies young and his chance has been taken away then why should he/she go to hell ?

Why should some people get such preferential treatment? Why wasn't I lucky enough to die young and secure my no questions asked entry to Heaven?

In short, what sort of a test is this, when some people don't even have to sit it to pass? Who decides who these lucky individuals are? Why is that person over there, and not you or I, who gets to go straight to Heaven no questions asked?



why do you feel its preferential treatment ? are you saying you would like people to be punished for circumstances which they have no control over?

if someone goes into a school and shoots a load of kids .....what would you have him do with the children who died ?
(or are you are suggesting God sent the gunman there that day taking away his free will and made him kill those particular kids ?).

in the above case the gunman decided to kill the kids...again you are suggesting God is killing the kids and chose them to go to heaven.
 
You're missing the point surely? I'll try and make it a simple yes/no.

would you answer a yes/no

So, do you believe, no matter where someone is born, no matter into what country, into what culture, into what time period, into what circumstances, and what events befalls them during their life. Everyone one has exactly the same liklihood of believing?


does it stop them from believing ?


:p
 
How many of you disagree that man evolved from Ape like creatures ?
If you accept that it's true then where in your holy books does it mention this ? Well of course it doesn't & we all know the reason for that don't we?

If you deny evolution then your evading the truth of your own body which still carries proof of evolution in many ways including the now lost ability to swivel our ears in all directions without moving our head, all the muscles are still there but we have lost the ability to use them.

Our forebears were covered in hair from head to foot & yet modern man is not even though the means to raise fur when threatened or afraid is still with us & actually works !
commonly called 'Goosebumps' there is a small bump at the base of every hair folicle which replicates what you see in many animals when agitated & 'raise their hackles'.

There are lots more but I guess you will deny they are proof of anyhing as it's not written in your books & therefore catagorically cannot be true.

This is what really bugs me with religious folks who hang their every belief in god on what was once written down thousands of years ago & enter every arguement by quoting phrases as if that's all they need to do to prove without doubt that it's the very word of god himself.
 
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