May be in trouble at work

[Dolph]

That's why there are managers. To manage people to acheive the objective the manager has been set.

If all tasks are not acomplished by closing time who is at fault? The little people, each working in their own area, or the manager who is missing the big picture?

Without being there, it's difficult to tell, but it could be either, or both. Ultimately it will fall to the manager, but the employees cannot abdicate responsibility for their own performance either.

If an employee is given a perfectly accomplishable task and fails to complete it appropriately within the deadline, whose fault is it?

 

[Feef]

Another disgruntled ex-Wetherspoons employee here.

Went through a fair few managers in the time I worked there, some brilliant, others who simply had no concept of how to handle staff. We could generally expect that being on until finish would mean working until at least 1:30am, when the company stopped paying us at 1am each night. I didn't usually mind this (though it could be a right *** after doing a 12 hour shift), but the only reason I really did it was so that the people opening the next morning would be able to get the pub ready in time. While I may not have got on with the managers, it was the other staff who suffered if things weren't done right, especially as there was generally only one staff member and one manager to open up.

The rotas were appaling, we were constantly understaffed and the managers refused to take anyone else on to help cover. In the end I got fed up of the place and moved on to far nicer bar work in more relaxed environments, and there's only one person still working there from my time at the pub. With a staff turnover that high, it must be evident that staff satisfaction is pretty appaling.

 

[loopstah]

The rotas were appaling, we were constantly understaffed and the managers refused to take anyone else on to help cover. In the end I got fed up of the place and moved on to far nicer bar work in more relaxed environments, and there's only one person still working there from my time at the pub. With a staff turnover that high, it must be evident that staff satisfaction is pretty appaling.

I've worked behind bars and as a skivvy in retail and that's one thing they both had in common, high staff turnover.

At least in a bar half the staff aren't still at school and incapable of working properly (work being defined as the stuff you do in your place of employment between chatting, being hungover, texting or calling friends, discussing your weekend, moaning how hard life is as a teenager, skiving off in a corner, sleeping in the stockroom, putting items in the wrong place because your lazy and calling other members of staff behind their backs).

I still can't believe I put up with it for 3 years.

 

[LordSplodge]

And reading this thread explains exactly why many employers/managers are harsh, or seem that way, some of the attitudes expressed are pretty bad.

Am I one of the few who understands that employment is a two way street, and if you treat your mangement/job like crap, they'll return the favour, but likewise if you work with them, everything will be much better all around...

And if it isn't, then get a better job.

I disagree, to some extent.

Most people work to live and so a job is exactly that. If they are treated as just cogs in the machine or paid a lowly wage to do a job then that is all they are going to want to do.

Unless you have a job you really enjoy then I say that most people see employment as a one way street. Do work get paid. You aren't going to go the extra mile because of what I said in the previous paragraph.

As a middle level manager I have seen how middle management treat the lower workers and how senior management treat the middle level. I am not going to put extra, unpaid effort into a company that treats me this way.

I will do it if the employer shows and offers me respect and treats me well (and pays me right) then I will go the extra mile. If not, no dice!

 

[dbmzk1]

I work in a factory and I walk off the second my shift ends. I don't get paid to work extra because the night shift are late. When I'm coordinating I tell my staff to simply walk off and go home if they don't have a relief person by the end of their shift. No senior manager has ever complained in either instance.

 

[Sonea Fifer]

There's a call centre near me where working there is very much a case of "big brother is watching you" if your a minute late back from your lunch break your "manager - T/L" is repremanding you for it, but your expected to work on if caught on a call two minutes before the end of your shift?

Would you get paid the extra money for the additional minutes worked?

Would you simply hang up?

I'm not being impertinent but there's certainly no way I'd be doing that !

I'd say the OP was quite right - too many employers in this day and age think they can treat staff disgracefully and get away with it !

 

[Participant]

The key to getting a good manager is to be a good employee

Good employees get the flexibility and support they deserve, but lazy, jobsworth employees won't.

Of course, far too many people think they are good employees just because they turn up...

Typically manager; turn it round on the employee when it goes bad and take the credit when it goes well

 

[peetee]

There's a call centre near me where working there is very much a case of "big brother is watching you" if your a minute late back from your lunch break your "manager - T/L" is repremanding you for it, but your expected to work on if caught on a call two minutes before the end of your shift?

Would you get paid the extra money for the additional minutes worked?

Would you simply hang up?

I'm not being impertinent but there's certainly no way I'd be doing that !

I'd say the OP was quite right - too many employers in this day and age think they can treat staff disgracefully and get away with it !

I used to just hang up if they were moaning about something pointless, etc, or if it was something bigger id tell them said department would be shut, ring back between 9-5. i got smart and just stopped taking calls 10mins b4 end of shift though and finished off other work

 

[lumination]

Another disgruntled ex-Wetherspoons employee here.

Went through a fair few managers in the time I worked there, some brilliant, others who simply had no concept of how to handle staff. We could generally expect that being on until finish would mean working until at least 1:30am, when the company stopped paying us at 1am each night. I didn't usually mind this (though it could be a right *** after doing a 12 hour shift), but the only reason I really did it was so that the people opening the next morning would be able to get the pub ready in time. While I may not have got on with the managers, it was the other staff who suffered if things weren't done right, especially as there was generally only one staff member and one manager to open up.

.

You're a mug then for thinking it's your duty to ease the workload for the people who open up in the morning. It's the manager's responsibility, not yours.

Anyone who works overtime for free in a job like this probably doesn't have the balls to stand up for themselves.

 

[sunama]

So what if the jobs not done? As long as he wasn't slacking off during the day then he's obviously been given unrealistic targets. It's down to poor management.

That sums it up perfectly. Add to that, the fact that this is a part time job he is doing (probably while he studies) and not his career, there is absolutely no need for you to feel guilty on any level about what you did (ie. going home on time, as per your contract). It is your choice whether you choose to work extra or not.

A good manager wouldve walked up to all of you individually and asked politely if you could stay behind. She/he would also have given a time frame of just how long you would be staying. A great manager wouldve told you that you would be staying an extra 15-20 minutes, however would get paid for 30mins. Unfortunately, great managers are few and far between these days. They work to reach targets, without considering staff morale - bad management. The manager who treated you like school kids and said you, " couldnt go home until the shop is tidy", is a bad manager. If I was his manager, I would take what he did very seriously and advise him not to manage in this manner. This is just the sort of incident that can lead to complaints, that his manager would have to deal with - wastes time and lowers morale.

If it is written in your contract that you will be asked from time to time to do overtime, and you MUST do it, then so be it. I doubt this is the case though.

The main thing is DONOT BE A WALKOVER. If you allow management to get away with a stunt like this once, they will do it again, until it becomes a regular habit. Once it becomes a habit, they will keep you in for increasingly longer durations.

The problem for you though is that although you are not in breach of your contract for what you did, the manager(s) might keep an eye out for you, so that the minute you do something mildly wrong, you will be jumped upon and the disciplinary process will begin.

If you have been working in your current position for longer than a year (I think it is a year), then you have rights. They cannot sack at their whim. They need to find a very good reason for gross misconduct (theft is a good one). So all those in this thread who state that they could replace him with someone else, should think again (unless the OP has been working at the firm for less than the stated period). Sacking someone (who has been working somewhere for over a year) is not easy. Unless of course, as an employer, you are happy to pay out considerable sums of money at employment tribunals.

Stand your ground. Bullying in the playground is not accepted and I dont see why people accept this behaviour as adults, in their place of work.

 

[sunama]

also, how happy would you be if you saw 2 members of your team slacking off early when they could be helping.

They weren't slacking off. They were working according to the terms of their contract. They were told that they would not be allowed to leave until everything was done. Furthermore, they were prevented from leaving the store, once they had finished work and wanted to leave. This is grounds for complaint in itself.

Another point is that if others are happy to be treated like ****, then that is their own outlook. The OP cannot stand up for them. It was the responsibility of the other workers to either accept the manager's order or decline it stop working at 8pm.

If the workers stay behind, they are helping a bad manager paper over his/her mistakes. In this way, this bad manager will never be forced to improve upon his/her organisational and time management skills.

Of course, if the manager in question is a good friend, then this changes things.

sometimes it's not about being a team player, it's just about not being an ass

Working according to contract, after being bullied into staying and treated like a child by your manager is not being an ass. If a manager ever pulled a stunt like that on me and had a go at me for leaving on time, I would put in a formal complaint against him. This is bad management; plain and simple.

 

[sunama]

I hate supervisors! I have two supervisors, which contradict each other a lot also they are big fat ugly women, who think they are better than me, because I'm still in education

Short and into the point.

 

[yer_averagejoe]

Thanks for being supportive. sunama - I have worked there for just over a year now.

I just realised my OP might have made it sound like I "mouthed off" to my manager when I actually kept my calm and ground.

I know the disipline talk is imminent and I think I'll go into it with the points I have raised, blame it mostly on bad management and ask for the argument not to be elevated.

 

[sunama]

I know the disipline talk is imminent ...

I dont think you will be disciplined for going home on time, unless of course, the mess was caused by you, which I dont think is the case.

...and I think I'll go into it with the points I have raised, blame it mostly on bad management and ask for the argument not to be elevated.

If they have a word with you on the shop floor or in the office, then that is the correct thing to do.

If disciplined, make sure that you know exactly why you are being disclipined. As it stands YOU CANNOT BE DISCIPLINED FOR CLOCKING OFF ON TIME. Remember this. Of course, they might get you on some other technicality, eg. "2 weeks ago you came in late and the week before that, hence, we feel that we must give you a verbal warning." Its not gross misconduct so you cant be sacked in one hit (as some people seem to believe). If they call you into the office for an official meeting, ask to take someone in with you, who is on your side (an older member of staff perhaps or even the other guy who went home early - someone you know is in your corner); they should allow this. They will know you are young and will treat you as such, so having someone mature there might keep them in check. Remember, disciplinary procedures are a game. Never forget this. Its all one big game and the best players are those who do wrong in the course of their employment, but get away with it, while the bad players get hammered for doing very little.

Personally, I dont think they will mention what you did when you next go into work. However, for the next few weeks at least, watch your back. They might look very closely at what you do and look for any excuse to give you a warning. Lateness/timekeeping is a big favourite, so make sure you are in on time and dont get caught having an unofficial break.

You seem scared that you might get sacked. To get sacked from your job, in one hit, they would need a charge of gross misconduct. Typically, in retail, this usually means theft or anything that can be construed as theft. Physically fighting a customer or another member of staff is also a good way to get sacked. If you are currently on a final written warning (which I dont think you are), then all bets are off.

In the future, if you do get a warning for whatever reason, it will stay on your record for 12 months, after which it should dissapear, so its not the end of the world. The warning is supposed to be a means to make you see the error of your ways and force you to improve. It is not a means of punishment. So, dont fret.

For the record, I dont think any official action will be taken against you.

 

[cheets64]

lmao, your contract will state your working time for being part time, seems like she is a jobsworth.

 

[.Kencs]

The way I see it is if they want you to work a little later, they have to ASK, unless stated in your contract...Dont worry cuz if they fire u for it, take them for unfair dismissal lol

 

[MookJong]

I can see both sides of the story, personally I stay back often but I'm 28 and in a position of responsibility where leaving things unfinished could have a major impact on others.

In the OP's position I would say he did the right thing, there is no way at the bottom of the rung you should be expected to work for free. I wouldn't be cheeky about it or kick up a fuss I would calmly explain that I felt it was unjust under my contract. The problem is that you will always get sheep and suckers up who will willingly explout themselves. This is why as stated earlier you see so many imigrants being employed at the bottom of the ladder these days.

Anyway, Fight the Power...

 

[PlatinumFX]

Yeah, mainly due to the amount of abuse I got off those "customers" for the year I worked there.

Also I wasn't ****** off with my job, I like working in bars.

KaHn

When I go to Wetherspoons or indeed any shop/pub/place of business/locale for interaction with human beings - I am nice to them. Do I deserve to drink pee?

People like you make me sick.

 

[JAzz]

I would consider myself as a good employee, I would always do the extra hours, come in early to get things sorted (i.e. setting up the bar for a friday night) yet the managers I have worked with are still bad managers irregardless of the staff.

i personally would take a pee in the coffee machine and leave.

Thats how I left my job in a wetherspoons pub, but the coffee machine was the ice machine

Sound like the model employee to me.....

 

[peetee]

kahn thats not getting back at your employers its getting back at the customers. nice one..