May have bitten off more than I can chew...MR2 Winter project

[adam cool dude]

Imo waste of time and money on an old NA

It is so easy to put a turbo motor in most people do that when they get bored of NA power. The 2grfe is getting cheaper by the minute as well which gives you a 300bhp V6 or poor man's Evora. UK GT specs are near enough turbo specification in the important parts so only an engine swap away. 3sge's with a few bolt ons will make 200 na with management. The N/A's are about same weight wise if not a little lighter than a GT86 but with a proper layout.

As for oil 10w50 is the best for 3s motors. I can highly recommend TCB parts for any of your MK2 MR2 needs. You need to phone to order but will deliver next day without fail and have almost everything you can think of when it comes to 90's Toyota's.

 

[ci_newman]

It is so easy to put a turbo motor in most people do that when they get bored of NA power. The 2grfe is getting cheaper by the minute as well which gives you a 300bhp V6 or poor man's Evora. UK GT specs are near enough turbo specification in the important parts so only an engine swap away. 3sge's with a few bolt ons will make 200 na with management. The N/A's are about same weight wise if not a little lighter than a GT86 but with a proper layout.

As for oil 10w50 is the best for 3s motors. I can highly recommend TCB parts for any of your MK2 MR2 needs. You need to phone to order but will deliver next day without fail and have almost everything you can think of when it comes to 90's Toyota's.

An old 3SGE N/A on 163,000 miles (which is what the OP has) is never going to reach 200bhp unless one of those bolt-ons is a turbo.

The N/A is notoriously bad for tuning, especially one that has done those kind of miles. 200BHP will only ever be achievable with an engine swap, and for the costs involved he might as well just buy a factory Tubby MR2

 

[adam cool dude]

An old 3SGE N/A on 163,000 miles (which is what the OP has) is never going to reach 200bhp unless one of those bolt-ons is a turbo.

The N/A is notoriously bad for tuning, especially one that has done those kind of miles. 200BHP will only ever be achievable with an engine swap, and for the costs involved he might as well just buy a factory Tubby MR2

Hurley race engineering will do 200bhp packages for the 3sge Dyno proven for not much outlay. Including bolt on throttle body kits. Top end engines are around 230-240bhp N/A but not cheap either.

 

[ci_newman]

Hurley race engineering will do 200bhp packages for the 3sge Dyno proven for not much outlay. Including bolt on throttle body kits. Top end engines are around 230-240bhp N/A but not cheap either.

You're still looking at > £2000 (inc. labour) for a 30bhp gain though. As I said before, it would be most cost effective just to buy a 3SGTE engined car in the first place.

 

[adam cool dude]

You're still looking at > £2000 (inc. labour) for a 30bhp gain though. As I said before, it would be most cost effective just to buy a 3SGTE engined car in the first place.

Who ever said N/A tuning was cost effective?

From the tyres/wheels perspective, I haven't spotted anything glaringly bad about the tread depth or wear yet, but they are standard sizes - 195/55/15 front and 225/50/15 rear so the standard wheels are on there still..is it worth replacing the wheels? Hmm, presently probably not. I will probably stick with the original wheels but could change my mind at a later date.

If you can find a set of 300ZX turbo wheels. These are a super cheap option of getting some great wheels that fit well while still looking OEM.

 

[The Running Man]

Think I still have a set of good condition turbo wheels in my mum and dad's shed!

I'd just can the whole thing and buy a real mr2 turbo and fix that up.

Find a GT spec or a rev5 with all the bits and if course the turbo should come with LSD et c.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks all for your replies!

The prospect of getting a Turbo MR2 is tempting, but I can't afford one until I've finished paying off my University tuition fees as I am a self funded student, 9K is a lot of money to find each year plus paying living costs and all that jazz.

But I reckon I can get this one roadworthy in a matter of weeks or months given the progress I have made on it. It is probably not worth turbo-charging this one, but at least if I drive this one and the engine goes, I have a myriad of engine conversion options, or I can sell it on and save for a Turbo MR2 or another RWD car.

I would like to fix this one up and enjoy it as these things are getting scrapped all the time and I reckon Turbo and NA versions will both gain value over time given the rate at which they are being scrapped for sill problems.

It's probably like comparing apples and oranges, but ever since I sold my RX8 and yellow Spitfire, I have missed RWD and this one drives so much better than my Corsa B does!

Today was quite a productive day:

(1) New Oil and filter change - no leak, that small oil puddle is where my sump missed the oil can when I was draining it.

(2) The broken mess of wires that attach to the Sidelights/Indicator/Front reflectors

(3) Fixed with a quick solder job and some heat-shrink. I later put insulating tape around them.

(4) Passenger side pop-up light motor found in boot along with some other bits, looks like the previous owner was going to fit this, but the bracket is all bent up, so I had to use the one on the car:

(5) All Front lights now working today after the quick solder job and replacing the motor.

(6) All rear lights now working as of the weekend (Brake and reverse lights also work, but a bit difficult with just one person to test!).

It's not been a terribly bad project so far.

I checked the tyres and only the passenger side front one is nearing the legal limit. I will replace the front two before the MoT.

Work left to do:

1). Bonnet Latch - missing a grommet I believe.
2). Front Trunk Latch - missing a clip I think.
3). Clean up calipers and discs, they seem quite clean, but I want to make sure the calipers are free before the MOT.
4). Front passenger reflector (may need to get a pair of lights though as I can't find these anywhere).
5). Check brake hoses - replace if necessary.
6). Weld hole in sill.
7). Put surrounds and covers back on front pop-up headlights.
8). New wiper blades. The window isn't being cleaned up properly with these ones, so new blades are needed before the MoT.

That should be all that is needed for the car to be MoT ready

 

[InvaderGIR]

How old are the tyres?

If the car has been sat for some time and they are pretty old I'd just replace them all as old rubber isn't exactly great to drive on.

I don't really get the hate, it's a fun little project and isn't costing the OP much to get the car back on the road. It might not be super quick (especially compared to modern cars) but I'm sure it's still a good bit of fun to drive about.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Cheers for your reply InvaderGIR,

I had a check of the tyres but failed to notice the date stamps! I think 5 years is the usual recommendation due to delamination, compound aging etc. So I will have a look tomorrow!

Also bonnet latch seems to be working! Just the front trunk latch and the other stuff to sort out!

 

[vanpeebles]

Keep up the good work, just don't jump off any banked hairpin corners just yet!

 

[The Running Man]

Good luck and enjoy the car.

If you do go for any mods I would always recommend front and rear braces. I have a spare front cusco original adjustable if you want it in blue for dirt cheap. Same with the wheels.

I had a nice rear h brace that was good.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks for your replies,

Vanpeebles - ha ha I will probably go up in a ball of flames if I try to race this car knowing my luck!! I only took my RX8 on track, 11 mpg on track and all day fun... couldn't get it to 5 mpg though, I probably wasn't driving hard enough!

The Running Man - I don't know much about the front and rear braces - do they go underneath the car near the anti roll/sway bars or on top of the car inside the rear engine and front trunk compartments on the spring/shock-absorber strut tops? If I can afford it I would be interested in your cusco original adjustable and wheels of course!

I found a Hilka 2 tonne sprung tow bar (probably need this when / if I break down!) in the boot and I still need to think of what I am going to do with the subwoofer and amplifier the car came with. I also have a silver mirror assembly, but since the two black mirrors I have work, I am not sure if I need it. I haven't fully emptied the boot yet though.

Also, I ordered two new front sidelight/indicator/reflector units as mine look a little aged and I'm missing a reflector, as well as two new wiper blades - hopefully the universal ones fit. Intention tomorrow is to fit the lights and the wiper blades and check the age of my tyres as well as fresh screen wash.

On the subject of tyres, I am thinking mid range is the bare minimum I should go for, perhaps some Bridgestone Potenzas - subject to keeping the original wheels or not, I am wondering if the Potenza will be a good set to go for perhaps?

 

[The Running Man]

Whatever you do with the wheels keep the stagger.

Go for at least mid end tyres. I never lost my car and that's driving in snow and slush and ice. But people do. Id go for maybe goodyear eagle f1s or similar?

Check the dizzy cap and rotor and igniter and spark lead cables especially if you do drive in the rain. As if ther are old/worn you might get some bucking.

Where abouts in the country do you live?

The strut bars I had fitted were on the top struts front and rear.

Fresh top mounts and maybe engine mount & transmission bushes would be ideal.

Mine was fully polybushed but you don't need to go to that extent for a nice drive.

After you've got the suspension sorted get a full laser alignment that can improve the handling too.

 

[Gamefreak501]

The Running Man, thanks for your reply; I have read some scary stories about the stagger being needed for the optimum handling. Supposedly 16" is the best option, and apparently 17" looks a little bit strange on the MR2, I guess it changes the balance of it's looks. I agree with keeping the stagger, even if I go to 16" with lower profile tyres.

I remember the one day I took my Spitfire out in the winter and I had the hood down and a scarf, didn't get into any trouble...but my RX8 did get stuck in some ice once when I took a wrong turn, I managed to coax it out of the compacted ice through applying power and then coming off it and by adding some clutch slip, and I did eventually get out of the situation, but I thought I was going to stay there, I guess the MR2 can be a very capable car in the winter in the right hands and with the right tyres.

Hmm, if I do keep my Corsa B, I may only bring out the MR2 in certain fair weather conditions; otherwise, it will be my every day car if I can't justify keeping the two cars on a multi-car insurance policy.

I don't think I have experienced bucking before - is it similar to fuel-related hesitation? A friend of mine puts marigold gloves around his dizzy to protect it against the wet weather, seems to work ha ha. But a lot of the Triumph made cars were very picky about the rotors, I should check my dizzy cap and rotor assembly and everything attached tomorrow actually.

I hail from Bedfordshire, South East - but I usually collect car parts if it is cheaper than courier and not too far away.

Ah, so it's strut bars you are referring too - I can see their benefit actually - I know I have some on the rear, but not sure about the front - and I don't know much about the ones fitted to my MR2.

Engine mounts and top mounts can be quite spendy - but if I can justify their cost and fit them in my budget they will transform the handling along with a full laser alignment.

You had a lot of work done to your car, must have handled like a dream, did you notice the handling on the track and / or the road, or did you just use it on the road?

I never did get round to poly-bushing my Spitfire, although it was touted as one of the best mods for it.

 

[The Running Man]

Personally I'd keep the MR2 as a good weather weekend car. Not just because you're more likely to crash it in winter but because if the grit and salt that will chew through your sills and rear arches from the inside out:/

It's not just the dizzy, water will run down the back between the rear engine bay compartment and the boot wall where the igniter is causing moisture issues (my experience anyway) at least that's how the layout was on the turbo.

Dizzy cap and rotor would be under 30 quid I think to replace.

Where's the cam belt up to? Not sure whether the n.a. is interference or not.

Well if you are going to freshen up the struts then do the top mounts and bump stops at the same time.

I only used my car on the road but I loved it!

 

[Gamefreak501]

I may be moving to a job nearer to home if my interviews go well, which will mean I won't need to keep the Corsa and I could effectively keep the MR2 and my motorbike as good weather/weekend vehicles as I walk everywhere I can. I don't like the idea of salt and grit chewing through my sills and arches, even if I fix the hole in my sill and fill the cavities with underseal, car bodies just can't tolerate all that winter punishment

Ah - I need to find where the igniter is - as I will likely have a similar problem as water does like to travel! The manual I have isn't complete, so I need to print off the rest of it and get to know the car as well as where everything in the engine is, especially in the spare time I have tomorrow.

Hmm, sadly, I have no service history with the vehicle at all, it probably got lost when the house was cleared. I have been told there may be other parts and documents for the car, so I'll have another look with my friend later this month. It is probably best to assume the cam belt is due a change. It looks to be a Rev 3 engine - based upon the plenum chamber and Yamaha cam cover which means it is non interference, but if it goes, the car will still stop dead with whatever momentum it has left which could be very dangerous in traffic

 

[The Running Man]

Oh a little tip for you I bought 2 acrylic sheets and rested them on top of the engine bay vents to stop water going in while the car was sat in the rain. Cost about 3 quid from.ebay but if you look through and even if there's a rain tray underneath the lid it still dumps water directly on.the engine and electronics lol!

Just don't forget to remove them before driving off

To be honest water was the biggest annoyance as I had a leaky tbar too:/ but sorting the igniter was a good idea.

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks for your reply!

Thats very good advice about the acrylic sheets! I think I'll order some in the next few days. I don't think my T-Bar is leaking though - but I can see some awful water and rust traps which appear to have killed the two horns!!

So I didn't achieve a great deal today but I found out that the tyres range from 2006 to 2013 if I am interpreting the stamp correctly as week/year. I reckon part worns were put on so they will all need doing! I think I need to look for some cheap 114.3 5-stud 16s now!!

Also, I put new wiper blades on and fresh screen wash so my screen is now clearing. But my lights haven't arrived yet so I couldn't put them in.

I was going to replace the fuel filter but I haven't figured out how to remove the OEM air filter yet. I might put a more compact aftermarket one in if I can.

Also I tested the horns, they sounded and slowly died. The fuse works because the Hazard lights work and I tested the plug and when I earthed it on some body work, I got a reading of 12-14v on my multimeter whilst the engine was running. Trouble is they are so rusty and hard to get at, unless I install replacements near them and modify the brackets or try to clean them up and/or add a new earth to each one.

Aside from that I need to check the spark plugs as they were fouled when my engine misfired due to a PCV vacuum pipe being loose!

At least I managed to get my front trunk closed with lots of plus gas and freeing up the latch with a small pry bar!

So still some bits to do but it's getting there!!

 

[weight]

...

 

[Gamefreak501]

Thanks Weight! Great to see another MR2 MK2 owner on this thread!!

So I haven't achieved a great deal today unfortunately!

I received some clips, which I thought would keep the prop rod on the rear engine lid, but it's the wrong fitment, it was only a cheap set and I am sure they will prove useful elsewhere, just a bit annoying, so today, I ordered two different types of clip - one is bound to be the correct one right ha ha

I also ordered a pair of dual terminal air horns, 110 db or something but they were cheap - and since my original ones will need to be removed completely to be cleaned up properly and second hand ones cost more than double these brand new ones did, I thought I would take a punt - it should hopefully be a case of modifying the connector on the loom side and putting a new earth in, but I shall find this all out when the horns arrive; in any case, the horn is an MoT and legal requirement, so no way around it.

My new side light/indicator/reflector clear light assemblies arrived today, so I'll fit them tomorrow morning probably. As I seem to have two different connectors on each of the current units, I will use the original harness on the drivers side one and the new harness on the passenger side one. Eventually though, I might re-wire these with new blocks/connectors anyway so they match.

I also took a look at tyres and at today's prices, I found these options:

Uniroyal Rainsport 3 - 195/55/15 Front; Uniroyal Rainsport 3 - 205/50/15 Rear.

Total: £298

Kumho Ecowing ES01 KH27 - 195/55/15 Front; Kumho Ecsta HS51 - 205/50/15 Rear.

Total: £256.54

Nankang Sportnex NS-20 - 195/55/15 Front; Nankang Sportnex NS-2 - 205/50/15 Rear.

Total: £216.16

There is definitely a difference in wet/dry performance when comparing the above tyres and I have always preferred sticking to the same brands, so these appeared to be the best three options in that respect.

After looking at the choice available and consulting various tyre size calculators and forum posts about wheel rim sizes and tyre sizes, going from 225/50/15 on the rear tyre to 205/50/15 opens a whole lot more choice, causes a slight over read on the speedometer (which is preferable) and is considered an ideal size for a 7J rim, whereas 225 is considered the maximum. Sticking to these numbers means I can hold out on spending extra money on alloys for now, which can be spent elsewhere on the vehicle. I don't think a difference of 20 mm is going to massively change the handling characteristics of the vehicle as the stagger will still remain and the tyres shouldn't have that stretched look which I am sure is really bad for tyre life.

Regarding the front tyre - it is 6J as standard and 195 is considered ideal for this size of rim so I will probably stick to the standard size and profile and this should be as close to the given handling characteristics of the MR2 despite the slightly narrower rear tyres.

I don't know how much of what I said about the tyre sizes holds truth and I will be looking around a bit more; but I am hoping to get them done in the next 3-4 weeks by a mobile fitter.

If everything goes well, with all the above; this is all that I'll have left to do before MoT:

1). Brake system: Clean up calipers and discs - check the discs are still the recommended thickness and replace these if necessary, check caliper function and brake pad thickness. Check brake hoses and replace if necessary, replace fluid and bleed the system.
2). Clean up rear sway bar.
3). Patch hole in sill.
4). Replace fuel filter.
5). Check and replace air filter.
6). Check and replace spark plugs.
7). Put pop-up headlight covers and cowls back on.

I haven't booked anything yet, but I am hoping for a mid to late November MoT. Fingers crossed I can make this happen!