McLaren Honda

Holst1981 · 18 Apr 2017 at 22:37

drunkenmaster said:
I'm not sure what the relevance here is in what you're saying? That is what the test is, part of development, which is what I'm saying. YOu were saying the opposite, that there is basically no development done till they get back to Europe.

This is just another example of the engine causing problems for the team.
Development miles are important, just look how many laps the others did.

Looks like Honda are still a long way from reliable let alone competitive. Hope they get it sorted soon.

6thElement · 19 Apr 2017 at 22:02

Holy carp, they managed to actually do a race distance in todays testing. I wonder if it was all on the same engine...
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/225143/bahrain-day-2-valtteri-bottas-ends-test-with-best-time

this_is_gav · 19 Apr 2017 at 23:03

6thElement said:
Holy carp, they managed to actually do a race distance in todays testing. I wonder if it was all on the same engine...
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/225143/bahrain-day-2-valtteri-bottas-ends-test-with-best-time

Yup, they suffered no issues at all and were able to start pushing.

The worrying thing, as admitted by Boullier, is that nothing has changed on the engine at all since yesterday, so they've no idea why today was so trouble-free.

The_Abyss · 19 Apr 2017 at 23:08

The promising part is that the engine does start to show more power and competitiveness when they are able to start turning up the power. The worrying part is that the failures seems to be completely unpredictable. Until the latter part changes there's absolutely no reason to think that they'll be any more competitive in the next races than they have been already this season until the engine gets some proven upgrades.

Having that in time for Button in Monaco would be wonderful, but given Honda's track record that's nothing other than wishful thinking.

andicole0 · 25 Apr 2017 at 11:24

Part one of the demise of McLaren Honda may be taking place right now. Sauber getting close to agreeing to use Honda engines in 2018. Honda are apparently going to be freed from penalties for excess engine component use this year.
Ref: Autosport.
Andi.

MissChief · 25 Apr 2017 at 11:27

The article you've linked makes no mention of engine penalties being lifted?

MikeTheNative · 25 Apr 2017 at 11:31

MissChief said:
The article you've linked makes no mention of engine penalties being lifted?

I couldn't see any thing either.

andicole0 · 25 Apr 2017 at 11:41

MissChief said:
The article you've linked makes no mention of engine penalties being lifted?

Sorry that's in a Eurosport article, under F1. Original news from bbc f1 gossip column.
Andi.

The_Abyss · 25 Apr 2017 at 15:46

I read it as a possible solution to allow Honda to catch up, not something that had been implemented.

MooMoo444 · 25 Apr 2017 at 15:59

While I do want Honda to get their act together, bending the rules just so they can seems a bit much.

ScoobyDoo69 · 25 Apr 2017 at 16:11

I'd personally be happy to see them make an exception for McLaren, another competitive car will only produce more action on track.

andicole0 · 25 Apr 2017 at 16:30

It is only one of a number of rumors doing the rounds. But I think F1 needs the 4th engine manufacturer and that is unlikely to expand until the 2021 agreement.
Andi.

drunkenmaster · 25 Apr 2017 at 16:57

ScoobyDoo69 said:
I'd personally be happy to see them make an exception for McLaren, another competitive car will only produce more action on track.

If that exception causes them to get more points than say Sauber, or maybe someone more like FI/TR or whatever... how would that be fair? Could they just demand an extra 3 engines and turn up the power themselves so Mclaren don't beat them?

Lack of engine penalties will not make Mclaren competitive, it has exactly no bearing at all on making Mclaren competitive, it only makes it easier for them to beat teams they are fighting with on their level in the constructors, which is wholly unfair and simply goes against the rules of sport in every way you can think of. If every other team has spent the entire season rationing their engine power and losing points to Mclaren because of it then it's insane to towards the end of the year just say hey, Mclaren can take a new engine and push it as hard as they want every race but you guys, you can't.

ScoobyDoo69 · 25 Apr 2017 at 18:24

No doubt you're right, it would be unfair. Fairness doesn't seem to happen in F1 though, does it? I'd not want to disadvantage other teams, but it'd be nice to at least see the McLaren engine get to a reliable stage with a small power bump.

MissChief · 25 Apr 2017 at 19:09

Renault were granted special dispensation previously to improve the reliability of their engine. You'd be daft if you think only reliability was improved then. F1 needs to have racing up and down the grid. Retirements stop that. While I do agree it's not 'fair' McLaren still have a very strong following and seems to be most Brits default team to support. There needs to be a limit to the number of changes they can make or something. As soon as both cars finish two consecutive weekends without a mechanical failure then the limitations come back or something.

this_is_gav · 26 Apr 2017 at 09:27

I've never been a fan of engine equalisation in F1. That's everything I expect in BTCC (and I dislike it in that too). Either do the job properly or don't bother.

I guess their hands are tied behind their backs without more manufacturers or an independent solution (Cosworth) to fall back on. I suppose they need to keep the likes of Renault and Honda happy or F1's future is in trouble.

GravyMonster · 26 Apr 2017 at 09:56

Good video here working out Honda's power deficit. They admit themselves there's a lot of variables here (top speed could have been affected by DRS or a tow, downforce levels may be different etc), but it's pretty interesting nonetheless:

FrankJH · 26 Apr 2017 at 10:59

MooMoo444 said:
While I do want Honda to get their act together, bending the rules just so they can seems a bit much.

Compared to the favourable payouts to Ferrari for decades just for attending you mean?

Interesting video - but we also know (I think) that Honda have turned down the power available from the engine to try to improve reliability, surely once / if thats fixed they will be able to turn the engine back up so video becomes redundant , no?

No real point on trying to find out the deficit on an engine running at 1/2 power (for example)

I realise thats easier said than done

MooMoo444 · 26 Apr 2017 at 11:50

FrankJH said:
Compared to the favourable payouts to Ferrari for decades just for attending you mean?

That would be a fair point if McHonda were short on budget. I doubt that is the case though.

JRS · 26 Apr 2017 at 12:38

FrankJH said:
Compared to the favourable payouts to Ferrari for decades just for attending you mean?

A few things:

1) What does an agreement with the commercial side of the sport have to do with any agreement over bending the rulebook in order to catch up?

2) Where do you stand on the extra 'heritage bonus' paid to Williams?

3) Where do you stand on the $35m a year extra that Red Bull get just because they were the first to sign on the dotted line of the payment agreement?

4) Where do you stand on Mclaren getting a constructors' championship bonus even though they haven't won a constructors' championship in a very long time?

Aaaaaaaaaaanyway...

re: Honda and any help to let them catch up - got to agree with this_is_gav. Leave that rubbish to other parts of the motorsport world. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle, and we're supposed to be watching vaguely professional outfits doing their absolute best. That being said - I have to wonder how anyone is meant to catch up when testing is so limited? Open that up and they might stand a chance.