McLaren Honda
- Thread starter andicole0
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They just don't have the necessary resources of money or personnel. I think I read somewhere that Honda put something like £350m+ in to just getting started on this engine. McLaren don't have that kind of money.
Soldato
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I thought they were soopa duper engineers and had a base like thunderbird island 
Gosh how hard is google?
http://www.cosworth.com/pr-media/ne...worth-announces-strategic-board-appointments/
Andi.
Indeed. How hard is it to Google? That announcement is from January 2014...
Well there you go Zak is already a Cosworth board member as I said.
Andi.
What? In the context of discussing yet another McLaren Honda disaster you post the below, which relates to an appointment 54 months ago that you didn't know about before?
LOL.
You've obviously missed the stories from Sky F1 that Mclaren may already have started break up negotiations with Honda and will therefore be looking for a new engine.
Hints from interviews in Canada also suggest Zak and Eric have given Honda 90 days to come up with an answer.
Alonso also being asked if he will go unless a new engine supplier is found.
I can't quote Web sites with this but Skys mid week preview and Paddock Live are well worth a catchup.
Don't get hung up simply on Hondas continued failures we need to see what the consequences are.
Andi.
loving it, it is very much Schadenfreude
wouldn't blame Alonso for leaving then mclaren would have no engine and no top driver.
i don't see how mclaren could secure an engine for next year now. It would be 2019 and then they still have the same problem, beating a works team will be next to impossible.
I don't know why they just don't have a go at build their own.
wouldn't blame Alonso for leaving then mclaren would have no engine and no top driver.
i don't see how mclaren could secure an engine for next year now. It would be 2019 and then they still have the same problem, beating a works team will be next to impossible.
I don't know why they just don't have a go at build their own.
Thats completely pointless (unless its strictly for one year while another engine is developed) - there is absolutely no point in going back to Merc for 3 or more years and accepting 4-5 places at best
Honda completely ******* McLaren on this one - even if they couldnt have produced a fast engine, at least supply a reliable one but they cant even do that
Just out of interest - is "scale" really that important, surely that only relates to how well one company can handle multiple projects and management behind it - surely if McLaren bought a small Cosworth team inhouse ( if the links between the two are as deep as suggested shouldnt be too much of a problem) - scale really isnt that important.
Suppose you're right, just done a bit of wikireading and they are developing the engine (V12) for the new Red Bull Aston Martin Hypercar. Just cut it in half and that's both McLarens sorted.
While I haven't seen it set in stone or a press release as such, the rumoured engine for 2020 onwards is a twin turbo V6 with MGU-K but ditching the MGU-H for a far simpler design and execution as well as a far cheaper manufacturing cost. This could tempt someone like Cosworth or perhaps even another manufacturer into F1. If they can do a sellable, reliable and powerful engine for £10m a season some privateer teams will be positively giddy at the thought.
McLaren is relying heavily on the goodwill of other teams if they plan to change engine supplier. The deadline for informing the FIA has passed and all the other teams would need to ok the change. Red Bull, Ferrari or any one of Force India, Williams or Torro Rosso could easily say 'actually we like a better chance to score points as you're doing badly. It's not our fault Honda are crap. It's a' no' from us. Not to mention the £130-150m funding hole McLaren will find themselves in if they do drop Honda.
They have to start trying to mitigate the damage to the brand though. It doesnt look good when your car is forever blowing up every other week or if it does finish its in 11th or something. I know its not quite the same but RB beat Renault with their own engine so who's to say that Mclaren can't get a lot closer to Merc if they have the right engineers/aero guys?
I'd rather have the best engine on the grid than the worst...
I believe this may be the case but Ferrari and Mercedes are against it so probably a half hearted change or even a two tier competition from 2020.
Andi.
Caporegime
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I don't know why people think other engine manufacturers would be against a good team with a competitive car having their engines. Think about this, if as some people believe, customer can't beat constructor, then in races in which Merc are strong, Mclaren would have a chance to come behind Merc and take extra points off Ferrari and the same argument can be made for Ferrari.
The only reason Ferrari or Mercedes would really not want Mclaren to have their engines is if they fear being beaten by Mclaren... which makes the argument that customer can't beat constructor stupid, because it's always been untrue.
99% of customer teams have 1/3rd the budget of constructor teams and as such there has been little to no competition over the years, that doesn't mean customers can't make great cars. The one time that Merc have a major advantage is in the first year of a new regulation period as they'll have slightly better idea of size/design direction. Smaller teams struggle to match their body work to small engine changes because changes cost money and on a tight budget smaller team cars usually have a bigger margin of error built in to start with. Mclaren have the money to turn around more bodywork changes and do it quicker, they simply have a bigger team in every area meaning they have more people in design, more people in production. Mclaren given the same engine are more than capable of beating Merc if they can make a good enough car. I don't think they'd have any chance next year, they'll have to make changes for a different engine, have a learning curve in terms of electronics, mapping and optimisation and it will take time to improve upon their first designs with a different engine in there.
I think they'd instantly go from struggling to get into the points to competing for top 5 though, it's a no brainer for them and Merc shouldn't fear anything from Mclaren up to 2020 and so they don't need to give them a deal past 2019 for now anyway. There is a chance Mclaren could take points off Ferrari/RBR which will help Merc.
I genuinely don't believe now that Honda have a single hope in hell of making a genuinely competitive engine before 2020 now, there is absolutely no point staying with them outside of financial issues. There is no reason for Merc not to give them a deal to 2020, there is no reason Mclaren can't get an alternative engine for 2 years and even go back to Honda for 2020 if Honda show good progress on whatever engine that ends up being.