mercedes / pirelli tribunal thread

Slam62 · 20 Jun 2013 at 21:34

Merc phoned up Charlie and asked if it was OK, then phoned again to get him to check with the FIA lawyer.

So if there is any punishing going on it should be the FIA

Skeeter · 20 Jun 2013 at 22:40

deuse said:
I never knew the whole BBC team went out to other networks live even when it's not allowed here.

It is allowed here. The BBC could play their audio live for every race in the UK, its just an outside broadcast.

What they cannot do is broadcast the FOM live feed, and the FOM feed is the only televised feed allowed for F1.

The audio commentary, the pre and post race shows, and any video inserts a broadcaster chooses to overlay are entirely within their control, and are completely separate to the FOM TV feed.

To be clear, there is nothing stopping the BBC broadcasting everything they produce live in the UK. But it would be pointless doing so without the live FOM feed.

The whole 'rights to broadcast F1' terminology make it sound like a single entity, but it is in fact 2 very different entities. One is the FOM feed you need a licence to broadcast (the TV pictures and track side audio that runs from the FIA graphic before the race starts, right up to the end of the podium ceremony), the other is all the stuff that goes with it that you either produce yourself or buy from someone who does. A contract with Bernie defines if you can broadcast the former, it has zero impact on the latter.

deuse · 21 Jun 2013 at 07:29

Skeeter said:
It is allowed here. The BBC could play their audio live for every race in the UK, its just an outside broadcast.

As I said it was not just audio but the full team did you not read?
Leave this now(AGAIN)please back on topic.

Just thought if they do get a fine they can put it in their next tax claim

FrankJH · 21 Jun 2013 at 08:23

Skeeter said:
The BBC are not broadcasting the race live in other countries when not here, they are simply selling the live commentary, which they will create at every race anyway regardless of if its broadcast in the UK live, and selling it to other broadcasters who want it. There is no 'broadcasting' being done by the BBC at all. A lot of the BBC's products are sold to other countries through the BBC's commercial arm, this is nothing new.

But hey, feel free to email them crying about it.

It may be a technicality - but imo if David and Ben are doing LIVE commentary (unless its using non BBC equipment etc) , then yes the BBC ARE transmitting it - otherwise it wouldnt be live - and its highly likely its the BBC that are paying them to do it.

Im not saying its necessarily available through freeview/freesat etc - it would still be "tranmission" over a secure channel for X, Y and Z to transmit in different regions.

Skeeter said:
To be clear, there is nothing stopping the BBC broadcasting everything they produce live in the UK. But it would be pointless doing so without the live FOM feed.
.

I have to admit I still dont know why the BBC choose to have simultaneous R5L and BBC commentaries (if DC and BE are going to be doing the commenary anyway - why have the R5L guys at all. There isnt any reason why BBC TV audio can not be transmitted over R5L is there (licensing etc)?)

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2013 at 08:34

deuse said:
As I said it was not just audio but the full team did you not read?

Did you not read? I explained that everything other than the live FOM feed is the BBCs production and they are free to do whatever they wish with it.

FrankJH said:
It may be a technicality - but imo if David and Ben are doing LIVE commentary (unless its using non BBC equipment etc) , then yes the BBC ARE transmitting it - otherwise it wouldnt be live - and its highly likely its the BBC that are paying them to do it.

Im not saying its necessarily available through freeview/freesat etc - it would still be "tranmission" over a secure channel for X, Y and Z to transmit in different regions.

Transmission is not the same as broadcasting.

I don't get what the big issue is with this? Its yet again people grabbing onto the loose ends of something they don't really understand and then going all bat *** crazy at the BBC because they are butt hurt that they don't get all races live any more. TV companies make stuff, and then broadcast it on their network or sell it to other networks. The F1 wrap around shows and the race commentary are just a product the BBC produce that they can sell to other people, just like selling Top Gear to Dave or selling the Wimbledon coverage to other countries to broadcast. Its how this has always worked, and its how countries that don't want to create their own content get their programs.

We know your all annoyed at the BBC loosing live races, but if your going to go off on one, or send angry emails to the BBC at least make sure you know what your talking about.

FrankJH said:
I have to admit I still dont know why the BBC choose to have simultaneous R5L and BBC commentaries (if DC and BE are going to be doing the commenary anyway - why have the R5L guys at all. There isnt any reason why BBC TV audio can not be transmitted over R5L is there (licensing etc)?)

They are very different styles of broadcast. The TV feed doesn't describe whats going on (well, unless its Leggard

) as the viewer can see it. The R5L program also dips into other sports news throughout the broadcast and covers other things going on. It wouldn't really work.

Tenzo · 21 Jun 2013 at 09:27

Merc/Pirelli thread, not the BBC/Sky issue thread!

cuke2u · 21 Jun 2013 at 09:45

Hi, I think that Mercedes should be banned from the rest of the season for cheating. Then I would have the pleasure of watching Hamilton throw all of his toys out of his cot...

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2013 at 09:53

chriscatt said:
Hi, I think that Mercedes should be banned from the rest of the season for cheating. Then I would have the pleasure of watching Hamilton throw all of his toys out of his cot...

Yep, that's just what F1 needs, Mercedes to walk away, taking their engines with them an borking 1/3rd of the F1 grid.

Tenzo said:
Merc/Pirelli thread, not the BBC/Sky issue thread!

Can a mod please move the TV rights talk to one of the TV rights threads?

utajoker · 21 Jun 2013 at 10:16

Don't clutter this thread with non related bbc pap.

JRS · 21 Jun 2013 at 10:27

chriscatt said:
Hi, I think that Mercedes should be banned from the rest of the season for cheating. Then I would have the pleasure of watching Hamilton throw all of his toys out of his cot...

Oh, marvellous idea. We're already down to 11 teams and 4 engine suppliers, and you reckon that TPTB should put the sport down to 10 teams and 3 engine suppliers, with two of those remaining teams having to scrat around to find a replacement engine and hope to God that it comes close to fitting into a chassis that it wasn't designed for. All so you can see a driver that you don't like suffer a setback. Great plan

Mr Men · 21 Jun 2013 at 10:30

deuse said:
"it would not have been a competitive advantage because they did not know what tyres they were testing"

Apart from Nico saying they did know what tyres they were using, good point

andicole0 · 21 Jun 2013 at 10:31

I think Mercedes will be disqualified from the manufacturers championship (which they weren't going to win anyway) but the drivers will be allowed to compete. That way no one loses. Drivers carry on, sponsors still get seen, public still see Mercedes race and F1 still has 22 cars on track.

Maybe Mercedes would lose money next year for scoring no points this year.

Andi.

Nismo · 21 Jun 2013 at 10:31

chriscatt said:
Hi, I think that Mercedes should be banned from the rest of the season for cheating. Then I would have the pleasure of watching Hamilton throw all of his toys out of his cot...

Yeah, that would be awesome.

:/

GravyMonster · 21 Jun 2013 at 11:02

andicole0 said:
I think Mercedes will be disqualified from the manufacturers championship (which they weren't going to win anyway) but the drivers will be allowed to compete. That way no one loses. Drivers carry on, sponsors still get seen, public still see Mercedes race and F1 still has 22 cars on track.

Maybe Mercedes would lose money next year for scoring no points this year.

If that does happen - which I think is pretty likely, Brawn is gone.

In comes Toto Wolff.

413x · 21 Jun 2013 at 11:24

Apparently merc are thinking of walking away. But I bet they will still supply engines

And, I think they could possibly win the wcc this year. Mainly due to their really recent tyre situation improvement.. I went there :-P

Yep I think they are the best shot at knocking rb out.

They can't blame pirelli, if they walked away... Ugh oh!
They have to blame someone.. Wcc points strip would be fair but would surely give RBR the wcc

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2013 at 11:37

Spunkey said:
If that does happen - which I think is pretty likely, Brawn is gone.

He was gone anyway. You don't employ that many potential Team Principles and then not promote one of them to the top job.

The FIA are making it quite clear that they want Pirelli gone, if they come down hard on Mercedes too then we could end up with no tyres and 1/3rd of the grid without engines next year.

The FIA need to be careful how they handle this. Part of me thinks they need to suck it up and admit to writing ambiguous rules rather than throwing 2 major players under a bus and watching F1 collapse.

Mr Men · 21 Jun 2013 at 11:49

Skeeter said:
The FIA need to be careful how they handle this. Part of me thinks they need to suck it up and admit to writing ambiguous rules rather than throwing 2 major players under a bus and watching F1 collapse.

FIA do not care if half the grid goes, Bernie might but not the FIA.

JRS · 21 Jun 2013 at 11:51

Skeeter said:
The FIA need to be careful how they handle this. Part of me thinks they need to suck it up and admit to writing ambiguous rules rather than throwing 2 major players under a bus and watching F1 collapse.

Meh, let it collapse....this is the 64th season of Formula One, it's had a good run. Time to run the Grand Prix World Championship to some other ruleset.

deuse · 21 Jun 2013 at 12:00

How come Ferrari with massa done a balance test also they had data from Pirelli and nothing is said by the fia?

I don't think Merc will leave for a minute but who would have Lewis and Nico if they did?

Mr Men · 21 Jun 2013 at 12:01

deuse said:
How come Ferrari with massa done a balance test also they had data from Pirelli and nothing is said by the fia?

I don't think Merc will leave for a minute but who would have Lewis and Nico if they did?

Cause they did not run a 2013 car, which is why Merc are in court. FIA already looked into the Ferrari test so not sure how you are saying nothing was said by the FIA.