mercedes / pirelli tribunal thread

[Skeeter]

FERRARI INTERNATIONAL ASSIS-....wait a minute....



What makes you think they will now, when they haven't taken the opportunity every other time that a wooly rule/organisational stuff-up has brought about an expensive farce?

If they fix this one, it will only be a matter of time before another hole appears.

I don't think this is a case of Mercedes or Pirelli getting let off, it looks simply that the FIA rules are so ambiguous and badly worded that they cannot be penalised for breaking the rules as the rules don't make sense.

The best thing the FIA could do is remove the testing ban.

This is not the fault of Pirelli or Mercedes, its the FIA.

 

[RSR]

A interesting line:

"FIA shall bear one third of the costs of the investigation and procedure, as provided for by Article 13.2 JDR, and all of its own legal costs"

Does that mean they admit they where at fault as well?

 

[Raymond Lin]

They've been excluded from a test... How is that encouragement?

A bit like, rob a bank, your punishment is you can't have your dinner.

It is a young driver's test (Not like entire pre-season testing or pre-race practice), which I presume none of the current F1 drivers are attending, which means it won't affect any of the races this year. It is not exactly a punishment that harm the team's chances in winning the championship this year. If the punishment was to exclude a team from testing, it should at least be equal, as in LH took part in the illegal test then the punishment should be their main drivers be excluded from the next scheduled tyre tests by their main drivers.

The encouragement would be that you might as well do these illegal tyre test again, because any punishment we give is a bit lame.

(I thought that was obvious?)

 

[Flibster]

A interesting line:

"FIA shall bear one third of the costs of the investigation and procedure, as provided for by Article 13.2 JDR, and all of its own legal costs"

Does that mean they admit they where at fault as well?

Says to me that the FIA were more at fault than Pirelli and Mercedes.

But the Tribunal can't actually say that... after all, they are employed by the FIA. While also being completely independent... Huh?

 

[GravyMonster]

I've just driven down the dual carriageway past the Caldecotte Arms in Milton Keynes - for some reason there's loads of dummies all over the place?

 

[deuse]

So free tests all round then providing you don't mind a slapped wrist afterwards?

Love this bit:

(1) The track testing, which is the subject of these proceedings, was not carried out by Pirelli and/or Mercedes with the intention that Mercedes should obtain any unfair sporting advantage.

So anyone can test if they say up-front that they don't intend to learn anything from it?

(3)
"Both Pirelli and Mercedes disclosed to FIA at least the essence of what they intended to do in relation to the test and attempted to obtain permission for it; and Mercedes had no reason to believe that approval had not been given"

 

[Skeeter]

A interesting line:

"FIA shall bear one third of the costs of the investigation and procedure, as provided for by Article 13.2 JDR, and all of its own legal costs"

Does that mean they admit they where at fault as well?

I think the fact they have done nothing but slap some wrists shows they admit they were also partly at fault in all this.

A bit like, rob a bank, your punishment is you can't have your dinner.

It is a young driver's test, which I presume none of the current F1 drivers are attending, which means it won't affect any of the races this year. It is not exactly a punishment that harm the team's chances in winning the championship this year.

The encouragement would be that you might as well do these illegal tyre test again, because any punishment we give is a bit lame.

(I thought that was obvious?)

Excluding questionable tyre tests, the YDT's are the only time teams are allowed to run 2013 cars outside of the pre season tests or race weekends. The YDT is therefore VERY valuable to a team. Yes they will have young drivers in, but they will be there test and simulator drivers and they will be testing new car parts that will be applied to this years car, likely as soon as the next race. While labelled a Young Drivers Test, its actually just a normal test but with non race drivers. Missing out is a big hit.

 

[gord]

So free tests all round then providing you don't mind a slapped wrist afterwards?

Bit dramatic for the inter.. oh wait.

I'm not surprised. F1 works like this: you find an ambiguity, you exploit the ambiguity, you benefit from the ambiguity, you get found out, you generally don't get punished because it's an ambiguity, the FIA fix the ambiguity, rinse and repeat.

The ruling tells me that the FIA take some responsibility for this scenario, but obviously don't want other teams doing so and anyone trying to exploit tyre testing in the future will be hit hard.

 

[tummelv]

I've just driven down the dual carriageway past the Caldecotte Arms in Milton Keynes - for some reason there's loads of dummies all over the place?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Excluding questionable tyre tests, the YDT's are the only time teams are allowed to run 2013 cars outside of the pre season tests or race weekends. The YDT is therefore VERY valuable to a team. Yes they will have young drivers in, but they will be there test and simulator drivers and they will be testing new car parts that will be applied to this years car, likely as soon as the next race. While labelled a Young Drivers Test, its actually just a normal test but with non race drivers. Missing out is a big hit.

But the illegal test was with their main drivers, any punishment should be the same.

 

[deuse]

"The tribunal said it was "unable to express any opinion" as to whether testing carried out by Ferrari with a two-year-old car in 2012 and 2013 was "properly authorised". But it said it was "equally unsatisfactory"

So Ferrari getting let off as well

 

[Skeeter]

Bit dramatic for the inter.. oh wait.

I'm not surprised. F1 works like this: you find an ambiguity, you exploit the ambiguity, you benefit from the ambiguity, you get found out, you generally don't get punished because it's an ambiguity, the FIA fix the ambiguity, rinse and repeat.

The ruling tells me that the FIA take some responsibility for this scenario, but obviously don't want other teams doing so and anyone trying to exploit tyre testing in the future will be hit hard.

Spot on. I expect the sporting regs will be amended to reflect this too.

It was the same with the double diffuser, the EBDs, the engine maps, the flexi wings, everything. The FIAs rules are full of holes, and when they get found out they can't do much other than tell people off and try to patch over the rules.

The FIA can't really be surprised. They encorage thousands of the best brains in the motorsport world to come and compete for massive prizes, its only logical that those people will find any cracks in the rules, its worth so much to them if they do.

 

[Skeeter]

But the illegal test was with their main drivers, any punishment should be the same.

They won't have been doing back to back tests of new car components in the Pirelli test, which they will (or would have) been doing at the YDT.

The specifics of the drivers are irrelevant. The YDT isn't for the benifit of young drivers, it was just a way that the teams convinced the FIA to let them test in season.

 

[Skeeter]

"The tribunal said it was "unable to express any opinion" as to whether testing carried out by Ferrari with a two-year-old car in 2012 and 2013 was "properly authorised". But it said it was "equally unsatisfactory"

So Ferrari getting let off as well

To me that just confirms the suspicion that the FIA have zero control over what Pirelli do.

I mean, didn't Pirelli use a Toyota built to the 2010 regulations during the 2011 season? If they were governed by the FIA that would be illegal.

 

[Mr Jack]

Good decision by the FIA. I'm surprised.

 

[TaKeN]

Can you guys hear that?!



That's the sound of Horner and Vettels toys leaving the pram.

 

[~Mike~]

Very surprised. Was expecting a fine at least.

Just waiting to hear what RB have to say.

 

[Guerrilla]

Surprised with that decision... God help us if Merc win at Silverstone

 

[Skeeter]

Very surprised. Was expecting a fine at least.

Just waiting to hear what RB have to say.

 

[Tenzo]

Good decision. I actually think that the YDT is pretty valuable, as Skeeter says, they get to test 2013 cars, new parts etc albeit with different drivers

Seems like a *deep breath* reasnoble punishment