**** Microsoft Surface Pro 4 Thread ****

[Peew971]

I'm also in Education and there's no way a laptop limited to the Windows store is a success. They had a good thing going with the Surface brand as a whole and the laptop is going to destroy some of that. Whether it's marketed at schools or not, Random Joe will go to Curry's, buy a Surface Laptop expecting full Windows (it only cost a thousand quid afterall) then bring that **** back to Curry's when he realises he has to pay extra just to use Chrome as a browser. Then he will turn to his friends and say "don't buy a Surface, they're rubbish".
They should have had the retail laptop running full Windows from the get go and maybe have a separate one for schools. And even then I'm not sure why schools would pick that over something else. Limiting the OS to the app store makes sense for Apple and Google, not for Microsoft.

 

[ChrisD.]

The only people I ever see with Surface Pro's or for that matter any MS hardware, are the MS employees I work with from time to time.

 

[Martini1991]

The only people I ever see with Surface Pro's or for that matter any MS hardware, are the MS employees I work with from time to time.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the MS hardware.

I've owned a Surface 2 for years and own a Surface 3 Pro.
I'd love a Surface laptop myself, but there's no chance I'm going to up my budget to that extent as there are plenty of OEM devices that are just as good.

 

[ChrisD.]

I had a Surface Pro 4 for about 6 months before I got fed up of it.

 

[cu3ed]

I'm also in Education and there's no way a laptop limited to the Windows store is a success. They had a good thing going with the Surface brand as a whole and the laptop is going to destroy some of that. Whether it's marketed at schools or not, Random Joe will go to Curry's, buy a Surface Laptop expecting full Windows (it only cost a thousand quid afterall) then bring that **** back to Curry's when he realises he has to pay extra just to use Chrome as a browser. Then he will turn to his friends and say "don't buy a Surface, they're rubbish".
They should have had the retail laptop running full Windows from the get go and maybe have a separate one for schools. And even then I'm not sure why schools would pick that over something else. Limiting the OS to the app store makes sense for Apple and Google, not for Microsoft.

Reading short articles must be a real difficult thing for your.
Considering the second line in every thing written about it is how you can install Windows 10pro for free until the end of the year!
It's really shocking this announcement has shown how little people actually read.
It worries me massively that the few in here that say they work in the education sector, yet, seem to do little or no research past an Engadget click bait headline.

 

[Peew971]

Reading short articles must be a real difficult thing for your.
Considering the second line in every thing written about it is how you can install Windows 10pro for free until the end of the year!
It's really shocking this announcement has shown how little people actually read.
It worries me massively that the few in here that say they work in the education sector, yet, seem to do little or no research past an Engadget click bait headline.

I know that, I follow that kind of stuff. Random Joe doesn't know that, we are not the norm. Sure you can hope salesmen do their job and inform him but that's not a given. And it doesn't change the fact that if Random Joe buys his Surface Laptop in January he'll have to fork out an extra 50 quid just so he can use Chrome. This is just silly.
And yes I can read, thanks for asking.

 

[glenimp617]

Reading short articles must be a real difficult thing for your.
Considering the second line in every thing written about it is how you can install Windows 10pro for free until the end of the year!
It's really shocking this announcement has shown how little people actually read.
It worries me massively that the few in here that say they work in the education sector, yet, seem to do little or no research past an Engadget click bait headline.

I don't think it's a case of people not reading. Everybody knows an i5/i7 laptop can run Windows 10 Pro (unlike RT, S is actually full blown windows just locked down to the store). What people are having issue with, is why Windows S exists.
Microsoft themselves have singled out the education sector, go watch the keynote. It played a pretty big part. Most people in the education sector struggle to see the benefit. If I were MS, I'd just inc Pro and have done with it. Forget the free upgrade and all this baloney.

If you have spent any time actually trying out various education products and hardware devices, you'll know Microsoft are years behind the likes of say Google. The MS classroom products (and recently launched teams) aren't even out of beta yet I don't think and some of the other stuff simply doesn't work.

You might not be able to, but if you can, try and visit a college or university which is part of the Microsoft Associated College scheme. They will have a classroom configured by Microsoft using all the latest hardware and software products. It's great, until you take a step back and think about what is actually does for the students. If you are non biased, you soon begin to realise the best solution is a combination of full windows desktop (or VDI) and google classroom. That's not to say things won't change over the next five years. Not today though.

 

[manic111]

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the MS hardware.

I've owned a Surface 2 for years and own a Surface 3 Pro.
I'd love a Surface laptop myself, but there's no chance I'm going to up my budget to that extent as there are plenty of OEM devices that are just as good.

Any chance you could suggest some of the OEM devices which are cheaper and just as good?

Genuine question, as I'm intending to pick up either the XPS 13 or Surface Laptop in the next couple of months.

 

[Martini1991]

Any chance you could suggest some of the OEM devices which are cheaper and just as good?

Genuine question, as I'm intending to pick up either the XPS 13 or Surface Laptop in the next couple of months.

Well, it's subjective.
For me personally a lot of the Asus Zen offerings for me are just as good, for cheaper

I'd love a Surface Laptop, not on Windows S though.

 

[Martini1991]

Reading short articles must be a real difficult thing for your.
Considering the second line in every thing written about it is how you can install Windows 10pro for free until the end of the year!
It's really shocking this announcement has shown how little people actually read.
It worries me massively that the few in here that say they work in the education sector, yet, seem to do little or no research past an Engadget click bait headline.

This isn't the problem.
The problem is W10 S, the existence of it.

 

[manic111]

Well, it's subjective.
For me personally a lot of the Asus Zen offerings for me are just as good, for cheaper

I'd love a Surface Laptop, not on Windows S though.

The Zen laptops do look great. Have you got one? I'm a massive stickler for keyboard and touchpad quality (currently have a MBP, but it's coming to the end of its life), so are they up to scratch?

 

[Martini1991]

The Zen laptops do look great. Have you got one? I'm a massive stickler for keyboard and touchpad quality (currently have a MBP, but it's coming to the end of its life), so are they up to scratch?

I've got a lesser model, I've got an Asus UX305, a Skylake M mobile passive device with 3200x1800 screen.
I do believe that the keyboard and touchpad could be better, however it was a 600 pound device, so I can't expect the world from it, I've had mine a decent time now, so I can only assume that a higher end Zenbook would be even better.

The Apple product that would compare with mine is the Macbook 12", and in terms of quality, the mac was better, but it was twice the price.

 

[cu3ed]

This isn't the problem.
The problem is W10 S, the existence of it.

How on earth is this a problem?..what problem..how does this pose a problem to ANYONE?..Are you MADE to use it...no...do you have to buy it..no, is there other products that suits your needs..yes.
Exactly what is the problem of Windows offering a super easy install boot to USB to set up multiple machines in the exact same way for education roles a problem for anyone?
MS cant ever seem to win here, even why they say "hey..like the hardware not the sofware..well..jsut upgrade to regular full on Windows".

 

[cu3ed]

Mis post

 

[Peew971]

This isn't the problem.
The problem is W10 S, the existence of it.

It is indeed. The people who say this isn't Windows RT 2.0 are clearly in denial. Yes the store can offer x86 apps but in practice it will just be missing pretty much everything you expect to get from Windows. The fact that an upgrade path exists doesn't change the fact that W10S is pointless and will just confuse the average consumer.

 

[Peew971]

How on earth is this a problem?..what problem..how does this pose a problem to ANYONE?..Are you MADE to use it...no...do you have to buy it..no, is there other products that suits your needs..yes.
Exactly what is the problem of Windows offering a super easy install boot to USB to set up multiple machines in the exact same way for education roles a problem for anyone?
MS cant ever seem to win here, even why they say "hey..like the hardware not the sofware..well..jsut upgrade to regular full on Windows".

Then they could/should have made W10S only available for schools without also bringing it to retail. That would have made a little bit more sense although if the Education apps don't exist that doesn't fix much.

 

[Martini1991]

How on earth is this a problem?..what problem..how does this pose a problem to ANYONE?..Are you MADE to use it...no...do you have to buy it..no, is there other products that suits your needs..yes.
Exactly what is the problem of Windows offering a super easy install boot to USB to set up multiple machines in the exact same way for education roles a problem for anyone?
MS cant ever seem to win here, even why they say "hey..like the hardware not the sofware..well..jsut upgrade to regular full on Windows".

What purpose does Windows S serve? It's targeted at education but is basically unusable due to a lack of software outside of Office (Which as of this date is unusable on Windows S given it's not on the store).

And we have imaging for setting up multiple machines in the exact same way. Windows S wouldn't do this?

MS can't win because they've released an almost 1,000 pound laptop with a cutdown Windows, as a ready bought device it's dead in the water. I get you can install Windows 10 Pro on it, but it should never be running Windows S.

I can see Windows S being used in portable devices with Office (When it's on the store) such as netbooks, as that'd make them quite sleek devices, but that's where its usefulness ends. But this is for cheap devices, not a high end laptop.

And I like the hardware for me, but there's not a chance we'd be spending 1K on student laptops lol.

 

[Hutchy]

If they have an upgrade path once inexperienced users get comfortable with windows and release cheaper laptops to compete with Chromebooks I can see it working out well.

 

[Martini1991]

Last night I had a search for software on the store, and there's almost nothing that we actually use in our classrooms at the College.

 

[Hutchy]

Last night I had a search for software on the store, and there's almost nothing that we actually use in our classrooms at the College.

Yep, I think significantly strengthening the current app store is a given before Windows S starts emerging. Let's hope they are on the ball with it as we speak (probably not).